Proto2000 Boxcars


Allen Cain
 

Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


rdgbuff56
 

Not sure.  But do have an updated for sale list.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 7:42:23 PM UTC, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Allen,

Our friend Fenton Wells wrote an article in the November 2012 RMC on kitbashing the Southern cars to 10' IH.

I do not see Southern represented in two RMJ articles on the Lifelike cars by Richard Hendrickson, October 1995 and September 1996.

The 1944 ORER lists three classes of 50' 10' 6' IH double door boxcars with 15' 6" door openings: 40200-40249 (end doors and auto racks), 41500-41549 (end doors, no racks), 42000-42299 (no end doors or auto racks). Curiously, the total number of cars in each group is not filled in, suggesting they were pending delivery when the ORER was printed, though the "denotes additions" triangles are missing.

I have unbuilt Lifelike kit 21027 for Southern 40249, and kit 8419 for 42010. I seem to remember there was something a bit dodgy about these two cars, maybe the sills or something. They do look nice.

The only thing I can add is that I have a copy of a builder's photo of 39969 circa 1947. This car has Superior doors and 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:42 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Allen Cain
 

  Thanks Garth.

Trying to decide to sell them or keep them.

Tending toward keeping them and squinting when I look at them to convince myself that they are accurate, or just not worry about it.

My October 1955 ORER lists 49 cars in the 40200 to 40249 which are 50' 6" long with double staggered doors and an inside height of 10' 8" with no reference to end doors.  P2K did the Southern boxcars in this number series but that it all that I can come up with right now.

And for some reason Ike's boxcar book is in hiding tonight.  Once I flush it out maybe it will shed more light on this P2K kit.

Allen


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Allen,

We have a mystery here. My 1958 ORER lists the IH as 10' 6", and with no auto racks. The end doors are there. I suppose it is possible that at some point the end doors were bolted shut, and then restored for an assigned service of some sort. There are no special service or exemption notes with this group of cars though. I only have loose pages for Southern from the 1944 ORER (I was only interested in their ventilator cars at that point).

After thinking about it last night, I think I remember that on one or the other of these cars the herald was not correct for 1944. Both of my models have an original 1944 reweigh date and two different styles of herald, and it isn't the post-war herald we usually associate with Southern. Southern's herald did got through several iterations. Lifelike included wooden running boards in both kits. It would be interesting to learn if these were replaced with steel running boards.

I never assembled these cars because my little L-shaped shelf layout has a curve that spirals down to 22" radius at its tightest point. 50' cars look absurd going through that curve, to say nothing of my 65' combine. I've stuck to 40' cars for a number of years. I will build them someday.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆 


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:05 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
  Thanks Garth.

Trying to decide to sell them or keep them.

Tending toward keeping them and squinting when I look at them to convince myself that they are accurate, or just not worry about it.

My October 1955 ORER lists 49 cars in the 40200 to 40249 which are 50' 6" long with double staggered doors and an inside height of 10' 8" with no reference to end doors.  P2K did the Southern boxcars in this number series but that it all that I can come up with right now.

And for some reason Ike's boxcar book is in hiding tonight.  Once I flush it out maybe it will shed more light on this P2K kit.

Allen


Allen Cain
 

Garth,

Both the herald and running boards are good questions. Maybe someone has the answers 

If the herald was correct for the 1944 build date , not saying it is, would it have been repainted with the post war herald for mid 1950s service?

And were the wooden roof walks replaced by the mid 1950s (have the rules for them somewhere)?

Anyone?

Allen Cain


O Fenton Wells
 

Some of the P2k heralds are bas and decals are needed, Mask Island or Speedwitch


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:01 AM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Garth,

Both the herald and running boards are good questions. Maybe someone has the answers 

If the herald was correct for the 1944 build date , not saying it is, would it have been repainted with the post war herald for mid 1950s service?

And were the wooden roof walks replaced by the mid 1950s (have the rules for them somewhere)?

Anyone?

Allen Cain



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tim O'Connor
 


The most common difference between the prototype double door cars and the model is the doors
and the size of the door opening. And other things. (NKP had Viking roofs. Wabash had Superior
doors. usw.)

Also the FIRST RUN of Proto 2000 50 foot box cars had incorrect roofs ! I think many people tend
not to notice this - They had the wrong number of panels!

I believe it was fixed on the cars without end doors.

Tim O'Connor




On 5/4/2020 3:48 PM, rdgbuff56 via groups.io wrote:
Not sure.  But do have an updated for sale list.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 7:42:23 PM UTC, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain
_._,_._,

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


The P2K end door cars are correct for the Southern. P2K mostly kept close to the prototype in their
paint schemes.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/4/2020 4:21 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Allen,

Our friend Fenton Wells wrote an article in the November 2012 RMC on kitbashing the Southern cars to 10' IH.

I do not see Southern represented in two RMJ articles on the Lifelike cars by Richard Hendrickson, October 1995 and September 1996.

The 1944 ORER lists three classes of 50' 10' 6' IH double door boxcars with 15' 6" door openings: 40200-40249 (end doors and auto racks), 41500-41549 (end doors, no racks), 42000-42299 (no end doors or auto racks). Curiously, the total number of cars in each group is not filled in, suggesting they were pending delivery when the ORER was printed, though the "denotes additions" triangles are missing.

I have unbuilt Lifelike kit 21027 for Southern 40249, and kit 8419 for 42010. I seem to remember there was something a bit dodgy about these two cars, maybe the sills or something. They do look nice.

The only thing I can add is that I have a copy of a builder's photo of 39969 circa 1947. This car has Superior doors and 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:42 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


George Eichelberger
 

The cars were built with wood running and "latitudinal" boards and replaced later.

The Evans auto racks were removed from most of the cars after a few years. I don’t know if the end doors were welded shut but they were not used (I’m sure there are exceptions).

The first order, built in 1938, were given the original SR Monogram (never called a “herald!). Dates on that are a bit “iffy”, the pencil version in the SRHA archives of the drawing dates to 1938 (because of the new all-steel 40’ and 50’ box cars delivered then?) but the “official” linen tracing was not issued just after WWII (details are in the SRHA book).

We need more photo evidence of which monogram was put on the cars in '44 and '45 because the few in original paint in the SRHA collection are faded but appear to show the second version where “The Southern serves the south” was not equally spaced around the outer circle. The question is further confused because the monograms on many stencil placement diagrams were never changed. As a “stencil” drawing was not intended to show the details of any specific stencil, only their placement on a car and the size of the monogram on box cars did not change, the shops and carbuilders simply applied the correct stencil per the drawing list.

I am (mostly) confident that all 50’ box cars after the 1938 order were given the second version.

Another factoid about the SR monogram…on the first 40’ and 50’ all steel cars, aluminum stencil paste was used. It’s hard to confirm that with B&W photos but the stencil drawings are specific, and shows the change to white. The Southern stopped using aluminum stencil paste about the same time they stopped using alum. pain on their DL-109s and 110s. Certainly WWII on the horizon led to that decision.

Ike