A friend on Facebook found this resource and posted the link for it: http://sld-nmra.ca/freight_car/ref_material/braking_trains.pdf?fbclid=IwAR17qjVSUv_iuhFYt7PPsxfB0s2i-9GHQp-78PG96-tDDnc418RvfpzCIko

Bill Welch

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 03:19 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

A friend on Facebook found this resource and posted the link for it: http://sld-nmra.ca/freight_car/ref_material/braking_trains.pdf?fbclid=IwAR17qjVSUv_iuhFYt7PPsxfB0s2i-9GHQp-78PG96-tDDnc418RvfpzCIko

Bill,

Hate to say it, but there are better references around, with fewer errors of both fact and interpretation.

Dennis Storzek

Just the messenger Dennis, just the messenger.

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim,

There is a term for those who state there are errors, but don't point them out or offer correct information .  "Editor" is the nicest of those.

Please share better sources.   Is the author wrong on the observation car too?

Dave

Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 9:24:43 AM, you wrote:

Them who knowingly spreads misinformation is just as guilty as them who creates it. ;-) As HST was fond of saying, the buck stops here!

Dennis,

Such as....?

Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 12:42:55 AM, you wrote:

Dave, there is absolutely no shortage of excellent information about air brakes. I'm pretty sure we've
all been discussing them by email for the past 25 years. Here are a couple of items for you.




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

I hate picking apart someone else's work, but in the interest of not furthering misinformation:

Page nine has a cut-away view of a KC brake having an integral cut-out cock; this may well be an illustration from the patent for the original H equipment, since K equipment doesn't have this cut-out.

Page ten snows a pictorial view of K brake equipment with the release valve properly shown at the center of the top of the reservoir (the side toward the floor.

Page twelve shows the author's model with the release rod terminating at the triple valve rather than at the aforementioned release valve.

None of the material on AB brakes shows the release valve or its rod at all, On AB equipment the release valve is on the control valve.

Page 21 gives the pipe sizes as the Outside Diameter, while the dimensions cited are actually the trade size of the pipe, the OD (what we model) is larger.

The model observation car has a UC-12 control valve, which hadn't yet been developed when that car was built, and those cars had a short life.

He presents a PC brake diagram, but not PM or LN or UC-12, all much more common systems.

I can't comment on the vacuum brakes.

Dennis Storzek

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 09:24 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Them who knowingly spreads misinformation is just as guilty as them who creates it. ;-)

As HST was fond of saying, the buck stops here!

On 5/12/2020 6:27 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

Just the messenger Dennis, just the messenger.

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

I think the key word there Tim is "knowingly." I had no idea you thought so little of me that you think I would do that.

Bill Welch

Dennis,

Thank you.  It's hard to know what's right or wrong when you don't know.  And I've been a subscriber for a while, but don't recall seeing documentation that was as clearly illustrated (which I felt that presentation was pretty simple and clear, if wrong).  Historical info scans aren't always easy to read and the instruction kit info is hardly clear, or in my experience, without mistakes.   So really knowing what is what is hard.

I am interested in the K brakes a lot, since I model '34 freight cars and many used this system.  My Dad was the mechanical engineer and was precise.  I'm mostly a statistician, so if the info has as many errors in each direction, to me it's about on average, and I'm ok :-).

Thanks for helping me make my modeling a little better!   I might try and take the slide deck and modify it with these corrections and Tim's supplied documents as my "go to guide" on brakes.

Dave

Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 10:08:09 AM, you wrote:

I hate picking apart someone else's work, but in the interest of not furthering misinformation: Page nine has a cut-away view of a KC brake having an integral cut-out cock; this may well be an illustration from the patent for the original H equipment, since K equipment doesn't have this cut-out. Page ten snows a pictorial view of K brake equipment with the release valve properly shown at the center of the top of the reservoir (the side toward the floor. Page twelve shows the author's model with the release rod terminating at the triple valve rather than at the aforementioned release valve. None of the material on AB brakes shows the release valve or its rod at all, On AB equipment the release valve is on the control valve. Page 21 gives the pipe sizes as the Outside Diameter, while the dimensions cited are actually the trade size of the pipe, the OD (what we model) is larger. The model observation car has a UC-12 control valve, which hadn't yet been developed when that car was built, and those cars had a short life. He presents a PC brake diagram, but not PM or LN or UC-12, all much more common systems. I can't comment on the vacuum brakes. Dennis Storzek

--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34