Kadee code 88 wheels.


Brian Carlson
 

I am thinking of trying out some of the above to replace some of the code 110 wheels in my Kadee trucks. Are they the same blackish metal as the code 110 wheels?. The wheel treads are not shiny?

Brian J. Carlson


Todd Sullivan
 

Yup, still coated black.  I decided to try some of Kadee's code 88 wheel sets, but I don't have an operating layout at the moment, so I can't comment on whether or not the wheels still deposit 'stuff' on the rails that interfere with electrical pickup.  BTW, I use a Dremel tool with a wire brush to shiny up the wheel treads.  They look better and may not deposit as much on the rails.  I've been doing that for 20+ years, although I switched to shiny metal wheels on all cars about 15 years ago, so this is an experiment.

Todd Sullivan


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Tim O'Connor
 


I never use Kadee wheels as replacements for wheelsets, but I have decided to keep the 0.088 wheels
that come in the new HGC trucks. I have roll tested them, and they are a HUGE improvement over the old
Kadee metal trucks. For the metal trucks, Reboxx (or similar) wheels are the way to go.

I've also always shined mine up with a Dremel. But I always use a "donor" sideframe to shine them up and
you must be very careful not to let the Kadee wheels "spin" from the Dremel - this will ruin the soft journals
of the Kadee wheels.

Over MANY years of use, Kadee (and other brands of) plastic journals will wear down to the point where
they basically have to be dragged around rather than rolling freely.

All my fat Kadee and Proto wheels end up as replacements for plastic wheels for cars that end up on Ebay.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/14/2020 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.

1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.

2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.

Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864





Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dan and List Members,
 
Dan wrote: “My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”
 
Some folks (myself included) feel that a plastic axle turning within a plastic truck is undesirable for another reason – it produces a lot of static electricity. This being caused by the constant plastic-on-plastic rubbing action. One way to envision this is the old kids trick of rubbing a balloon on your clothes – the balloon then likes to stick to things because of the static charge that the balloon acquires. The theory is that when this occurs with a plastic wheelset to plastic truck combination, dust and dirt is attracted onto the wheelset, and then later that same dust and dirt gets deposited by the wheel onto the track.
 
It sounds plausible to me, but I have no real way of proving this. I do feel my track stays cleaner longer when I don’t run plastic wheelset to plastic truck combinations.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 

From: Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:22 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee code 88 wheels.
 
Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.
 
1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.
 
2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.
 
Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========
 

On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
 
Thanks Denny and Todd. 
 
Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  
 
The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.
 
Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864
 
 
 
 


Brian Carlson
 

In my case the Kadee wheels would be only in Kadee trucks.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com> wrote:

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.


golden1014
 

Hi Brian,

I've used the Kadee .088-tread wheelsets.  Yep, they're made of the same blackened pot metal as the rest of the line.

I have attempted to clean the tread of the Kadee wheels by spinning the wheels with a Dremel equipped with a wire brush on the lowest speed.  The plastic axles have a tendency to melt in the journal box.  Therefore I recommend Reboxx wheelsets if you can still find them.

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany


Bob Chaparro
 

A few years ago I contacted Kadee and they stated their metal wheels are made of zinc.  I believe some people have had issues with zinc powder being deposited as a black substance on their track.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I don't have much experience with running trains for hours on end since my friend with a great layout moved back to the mainland.  At that time I did not experience any problems with Kadee wheel sets.

My standard for wheel sets now is Kadee sets for ribbed back wheels and Intermountaln for all others.  The Kadee sets have raised lettering on the face.  Although you don't see this when the car is on a layout the same applies to most of the other details that we spend hours to create.

I also use John Goldens method of using a wire brush in a Dremel in the treads.  I have not experienced any problems probably because it only takes a few seconds to polish the treads.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "golden1014 via groups.io" <golden1014@...>
Date: 5/14/20 12:17 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee code 88 wheels.

Hi Brian,

I've used the Kadee .088-tread wheelsets.  Yep, they're made of the same blackened pot metal as the rest of the line.

I have attempted to clean the tread of the Kadee wheels by spinning the wheels with a Dremel equipped with a wire brush on the lowest speed.  The plastic axles have a tendency to melt in the journal box.  Therefore I recommend Reboxx wheelsets if you can still find them.

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany


Raymond Stern
 

Please let me ask a dum question. I have been using NWSL
.088 wheel sets for more years than I choose to admit. I have
used them since before the IMR, Kadee, and Rebox .088 wheel
sets were ever available. They have three axle lengths and one
with an axle diameter that fits Atlas journals without having to
ream them out. They appear to be brass wheels and are on
metal axles. Yes I paint the wheels.

I have used them on my freight and passenger cars and have
also used their half axle .088 wheels on my diesels.

My diesels and rolling stock have operated just fine for years at
home, at the club, and at several friends layouts.

However, every time over the past three or four years .088 wheels
comes up as subject NWSL is never mentioned. Huh?

Raymond


Brian Carlson
 

I don’t think it’s a dumb question. Speaking only for myself it’s availability. I can buy intermountain, Reboxx, Kadee at the hobby shop, retail or online. Reboxx not so much now.  I have never been in a store or on a website that had Northwest short line wheel sets available so I’ve never been exposed to them.

I just looked at their website and a couple of them look interesting I may sample a package of each of their code 88.

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Raymond Stern <raymondstern1@...> wrote:


Please let me ask a dum question. I have been using NWSL
.088 wheel sets for more years than I choose to admit. I have
used them since before the IMR, Kadee, and Rebox .088 wheel
sets were ever available. They have three axle lengths and one
with an axle diameter that fits Atlas journals without having to
ream them out. They appear to be brass wheels and are on
metal axles. Yes I paint the wheels.

I have used them on my freight and passenger cars and have
also used their half axle .088 wheels on my diesels.

My diesels and rolling stock have operated just fine for years at
home, at the club, and at several friends layouts.

However, every time over the past three or four years .088 wheels
comes up as subject NWSL is never mentioned. Huh?

Raymond


Andy Carlson
 

Richard Hendrickson told me that his preferred wheels were made by NWSL. Richard's preferrence was based on NWSL wheels which were turned from Nickel Silver, not brass, in their manufacture. All of the NS plated IMRC and Rebox brass wheels would eventually lose their thin, shinny plating when going distances on layouts, exposing the brass underlying material. Richard disliked shinny brass wheel treads with a passion. This is the reason that was not easily debated against by people who expected frequent operations.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 3:39:45 PM PDT, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


I don’t think it’s a dumb question. Speaking only for myself it’s availability. I can buy intermountain, Reboxx, Kadee at the hobby shop, retail or online. Reboxx not so much now.  I have never been in a store or on a website that had Northwest short line wheel sets available so I’ve never been exposed to them.

I just looked at their website and a couple of them look interesting I may sample a package of each of their code 88.

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Raymond Stern <raymondstern1@...> wrote:


Please let me ask a dum question. I have been using NWSL
.088 wheel sets for more years than I choose to admit. I have
used them since before the IMR, Kadee, and Rebox .088 wheel
sets were ever available. They have three axle lengths and one
with an axle diameter that fits Atlas journals without having to
ream them out. They appear to be brass wheels and are on
metal axles. Yes I paint the wheels.

I have used them on my freight and passenger cars and have
also used their half axle .088 wheels on my diesels.

My diesels and rolling stock have operated just fine for years at
home, at the club, and at several friends layouts.

However, every time over the past three or four years .088 wheels
comes up as subject NWSL is never mentioned. Huh?

Raymond


Brian Carlson
 

Ok. Looking at the NWSL website. $24 for 4 wheels. wowza. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

I don’t think it’s a dumb question. Speaking only for myself it’s availability. I can buy intermountain, Reboxx, Kadee at the hobby shop, retail or online. Reboxx not so much now.  I have never been in a store or on a website that had Northwest short line wheel sets available so I’ve never been exposed to them.

I just looked at their website and a couple of them look interesting I may sample a package of each of their code 88.

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Raymond Stern <raymondstern1@...> wrote:


Please let me ask a dum question. I have been using NWSL
.088 wheel sets for more years than I choose to admit. I have
used them since before the IMR, Kadee, and Rebox .088 wheel
sets were ever available. They have three axle lengths and one
with an axle diameter that fits Atlas journals without having to
ream them out. They appear to be brass wheels and are on
metal axles. Yes I paint the wheels.

I have used them on my freight and passenger cars and have
also used their half axle .088 wheels on my diesels.

My diesels and rolling stock have operated just fine for years at
home, at the club, and at several friends layouts.

However, every time over the past three or four years .088 wheels
comes up as subject NWSL is never mentioned. Huh?

Raymond