Rutland House Car Color


Bill Welch
 

I am preparing to paint my F&C Rutland Stock Car and I am hoping someone here familiar with that RR's practice can comment on what color was used on their Boxcars and Stock Cars? I am not interested in an exact match but rather what neighborhood:

—Oxide Red?

—Red-Brown?

—more Brown than Red?

Thank you,
Bill Welch


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bill,

Will this attached photo help? Car was grounded by the Chester depot for many years. I shot this circa 2000.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:11 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I am preparing to paint my F&C Rutland Stock Car and I am hoping someone here familiar with that RR's practice can comment on what color was used on their Boxcars and Stock Cars? I am not interested in an exact match but rather what neighborhood:

—Oxide Red?

—Red-Brown?

—more Brown than Red?

Thank you,
Bill Welch


Rich C
 

Bill, From what I have read on some of the Rutland sites, including RPI (NEB&W), they were painted Rutland Cherry Red, which is 50% Box Car Red and 50% Caboose Red

Rich Christie

On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 08:12:42 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Bill,

Will this attached photo help? Car was grounded by the Chester depot for many years. I shot this circa 2000.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:11 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I am preparing to paint my F&C Rutland Stock Car and I am hoping someone here familiar with that RR's practice can comment on what color was used on their Boxcars and Stock Cars? I am not interested in an exact match but rather what neighborhood:

—Oxide Red?

—Red-Brown?

—more Brown than Red?

Thank you,
Bill Welch


Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 06:12 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Will this attached photo help? Car was grounded by the Chester depot for many years. I shot this circa 2000.
 
That's not the in-service paint... you can see the parts that haven't been repainted are totally devoid of any paint. So, somebody painted it with what they had, no guarantee of a match, and only repainted the big lettering. 

Dennis Storzek
 


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 
times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 
Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's
suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 
to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

My best, Don Valentine


Eric Hansmann
 

The original color? From the as-built appearance in the Teens? I doubt that. 

Let’s be careful with general statements. That’s how hobby myths are created, like all PRR freight cars are Tuscan Red. 

It takes little extra effort to include a timeframe with a question or an answer. This list is a resource. Include accurate details. 

Not all the list members model the years when steam died. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 14, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 
times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 
Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's
suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 
to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

My best, Don Valentine


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Folks,

    Further to what I wrote for Bill Welch too late for me last evening, the color I have used for
all Rutland house cars is Accu-paint AP-59, Iron Oxide. While I cannot find my Tru-Color 
color chart right this moment I'm sure if you called Rich he could tell you what he has that 
matches. Perhaps it would be helpful to note here that while the Rutland was no longer under
NYC control from shortly after the passage of the Panama Canal Act, in 1915 if memory serves,
there was always a friendly and close relationship between the two. Such things even as the 
castings for the lead trucks of the K-1 and K-2 Pacific classes on the Rutland both bore their
NYC cast part numbers cast right into them. I believe it can also be shown that the colors of 
paint used for equipment and rolling stock were also very close to those of the NYC if not ordered
as part of an NYC order for the same color. This did not really change until the rolling smudge pots 
began to arrive in the early 1950's but at least they came from the same locomotive builder. Yes, I 
partial to Alco, and Lima, have little use for EMD and even less for Baldwin.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Jeff Coleman
 

I don't have a date but here's a in service photo of Rutland 7999

Jeff Coleman

On Thu, May 14, 2020, 10:40 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
The original color? From the as-built appearance in the Teens? I doubt that. 

Let’s be careful with general statements. That’s how hobby myths are created, like all PRR freight cars are Tuscan Red. 

It takes little extra effort to include a timeframe with a question or an answer. This list is a resource. Include accurate details. 

Not all the list members model the years when steam died. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 14, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 
times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 
Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's
suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 
to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

My best, Don Valentine


Bruce Smith
 

Looks like somebody forgot to use a matte coat after applying the decals... 😉

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Coleman <traininsp@...>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:59 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland House Car Color
 
I don't have a date but here's a in service photo of Rutland 7999

Jeff Coleman

On Thu, May 14, 2020, 10:40 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
The original color? From the as-built appearance in the Teens? I doubt that. 

Let’s be careful with general statements. That’s how hobby myths are created, like all PRR freight cars are Tuscan Red. 

It takes little extra effort to include a timeframe with a question or an answer. This list is a resource. Include accurate details. 

Not all the list members model the years when steam died. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 14, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 
times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 
Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's
suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 
to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

My best, Don Valentine


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Unfortunately,Jeff, the car you present a photo of is a one-of-a-kind on the Rutland acquired through payment 
to the CNR for wreck damage. I suspect most can immediately recognize the CNR heritage of the car no matter
how it is painted. This car went off the joint Rutland - Central Vermont Rwy trestle between Alburgh, VT and 
Rouses Point, NY and into Lake Champlain with the Rutland's USRA light 2-8-2 #33 one hundred years ago last 
month, in April 1920, and remained for a year before being fished out, rehabilitated and  put into service on the 
Rutland. Eric Hansmann seems to feel that the Rutland's house cars were originally darker. I do not disagree with 
this but would note that the house cars of most railroads were darker in the early 1900's but that the colors began
to lighten in the post-WW I era.when the ex-CNR car was restored to use. The Rutland's 36 ft. boxcars such a that 
Bill Welch has built were constructed under NYC guidelines in 1913. From the builder's photo copies I made at ACF 
some twenty odd years ago I would agree they were darker in color but how may among us are modeling 1913 as 
it is beyond the period of this group. The 40 ft. Rutland boxcars began arriving in 1924, again under NYC's strong 
influence as it still owned 50% of the Rutland's stock at that time and took a greater part in Rutland management 
than it's partner in control, the New Haven. Can someone tell us exactly what color the NYC was using for house
cars in 1924? If not I'm going to strongly suggest that it was very close to what you will have with Accu-Paint 
AP-59 Iron Oxide.as many former Rutland employees were telling me n the 1970's and 1980's. This is still a hobby
so iyo can paint a noxcar any color you wish and live with it but I appreciae the efforst of those like Bill Welch who 
try to do at least a little research to find a paint as close to the color of the prototype as possible, but I'll be damned
if I'm going to get into the childish arguments I've heard about how you have to modify a particular color to have it 
look "right" under some particular type of lighting used for someone's home pike.

Cordially, Don Valentine     


Dave Parker
 

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 07:08 AM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
I would agree they were darker in color but how may among us are modeling 1913 as 
it is beyond the period of this group.
Um, from the group's home page:  "...The purpose of this list is to discuss all aspects of North American freight cars of the steam era [ 1900-1960 ]."
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Looked like unredeemed TYCO to me . . .  I mean, I checked the flanges to see . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: Bruce Smith

Looks like somebody forgot to use a matte coat after applying the decals... 😉

 

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Coleman <traininsp@...>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:59 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland House Car Color

 

I don't have a date but here's a in service photo of Rutland 7999

 

Jeff Coleman

 

On Thu, May 14, 2020, 10:40 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

The original color? From the as-built appearance in the Teens? I doubt that. 

 

Let’s be careful with general statements. That’s how hobby myths are created, like all PRR freight cars are Tuscan Red. 

 

It takes little extra effort to include a timeframe with a question or an answer. This list is a resource. Include accurate details. 

 

Not all the list members model the years when steam died. 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On May 14, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 

times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 

Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's

suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 

to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

 

My best, Don Valentine


John Barry
 

A truly unique car.  The only 100,000 pound capacity box on the Rutland in Oct of 44.  Dennis made it in Resin, one of the Storzek kits that I have.  He also reproduced it in his Acurail line, kit # 4105.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, May 15, 2020, 09:05:52 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Looks like somebody forgot to use a matte coat after applying the decals... 😉

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Coleman <traininsp@...>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:59 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rutland House Car Color
 
I don't have a date but here's a in service photo of Rutland 7999

Jeff Coleman

On Thu, May 14, 2020, 10:40 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
The original color? From the as-built appearance in the Teens? I doubt that. 

Let’s be careful with general statements. That’s how hobby myths are created, like all PRR freight cars are Tuscan Red. 

It takes little extra effort to include a timeframe with a question or an answer. This list is a resource. Include accurate details. 

Not all the list members model the years when steam died. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 14, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

 That's true Dennis but it's darn close to the original color that it was repainted with. I used to pass that car several 
times each Sat. and Sun while working for the Green Mountain Rwy. and/or Steamtown when serving as either the 
Relief Passenger Trainman or the Relief Fireman for the Riverside to Chester turn three times per day. Rich Christie's
suggestion is really of the wall as the cherry red was used only on cabeese and darn few of them at that! I will check 
to see.which Accu-Paint color I have used on my Rutland boxcars tomorrow and advise further.

My best, Don Valentine


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 03:05 PM, John Barry wrote:
Dennis made it in Resin, one of the Storzek kits that I have.  He also reproduced it in his Acurail line, kit # 4105.
 
And, since one of our distributors wanted them in multiple road numbers, there are now three times as many individually numbered models as what the prototype had :-)

Dennis Storzek


al_brown03
 

Going back to Bill's original question, Jordan, "Rutland in Color", has photos of R 8118 (p 39), 8283, 8060 (both p 78). 8033, 7999 (both p 102). All look oxide red; but they're all box cars. I don't know if stock cars were the same color as box cars or some other color.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Bill Welch
 

Thank you Al for bringing the discussion back to the topic. I have no reason to believe Rutland stock cars were painted any differently than their boxcars—Oxide Red it will be.

Bill Welch


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

There's no reason for anyone to think that Rutand stock cars were painted in a color different
from the boxcars, Bill, so the Iron Oxide should stand you in good stead. Hope to see the 
finished car as It may get me going on my three to be mass completed. as my five Rutland
and one B&A 36 ft. boxcars were done. I wanted more cars from the local roads but wonder
if you could recommend a good Georgia & Florida box car model to join them.

My best, Don Valentine