ID needed


Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

I recently discovered this photo of a wreck on the Ma&Pa at Sharon, MD near Gross Trestle from 10/30/1925. The near car on it's side appears to be a reefer due to the door and ice hatches. It's also a single sheathed car to me. I can only recall Pennsy R7 and a similar Reading cars like that. Wouldn't a SS reefer have little ability to keep things cool?

Thanks for any help.
oldline1


Bruce Smith
 

Definitely an R7 in the photograph. You can tell by the diagonal bracing going in both directions. On the R7, the insulation was added inside the sheathing, so the capacity was reduced over that of the X24 boxcar. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Roger Huber via groups.io <trainpainter@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ID needed
 
I recently discovered this photo of a wreck on the Ma&Pa at Sharon, MD near Gross Trestle from 10/30/1925. The near car on it's side appears to be a reefer due to the door and ice hatches. It's also a single sheathed car to me. I can only recall Pennsy R7 and a similar Reading cars like that. Wouldn't a SS reefer have little ability to keep things cool?

Thanks for any help.
oldline1


Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

So the car was basically a SS car with an extra layer of sheathing INSIDE sandwiching the insulation? That ought to really cut down the capacity.

An outside braced reefer was probably a limited design car I assume?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 04:54:50 PM CDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Definitely an R7 in the photograph. You can tell by the diagonal bracing going in both directions. On the R7, the insulation was added inside the sheathing, so the capacity was reduced over that of the X24 boxcar. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Roger Huber via groups.io <trainpainter@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ID needed
 
I recently discovered this photo of a wreck on the Ma&Pa at Sharon, MD near Gross Trestle from 10/30/1925. The near car on it's side appears to be a reefer due to the door and ice hatches. It's also a single sheathed car to me. I can only recall Pennsy R7 and a similar Reading cars like that. Wouldn't a SS reefer have little ability to keep things cool?

Thanks for any help.
oldline1


erieblt2
 

Some produce didn’t need icing-just air flow. Potatoes, and I believe onions among the produce were so shipped. Were some (uninsulated) cars used for the brief(heavy) potato runs(seed potatoes in the spring, product in the fall)? Those cars could be used for other purposes the rest of the year. ACL ‘Watermellon’ (ventilated)cars had barred doors, and regular doors for other freight. The insulation, bunkers, etc. would use up a lot of space. Does anyone know if they had ‘ventilated’ box cars? Respectfully, Bill S.


On May 20, 2020, at 3:04 PM, Roger Huber via groups.io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


So the car was basically a SS car with an extra layer of sheathing INSIDE sandwiching the insulation? That ought to really cut down the capacity.

An outside braced reefer was probably a limited design car I assume?

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 04:54:50 PM CDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Definitely an R7 in the photograph. You can tell by the diagonal bracing going in both directions. On the R7, the insulation was added inside the sheathing, so the capacity was reduced over that of the X24 boxcar. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Roger Huber via groups.io <trainpainter@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ID needed
 
I recently discovered this photo of a wreck on the Ma&Pa at Sharon, MD near Gross Trestle from 10/30/1925. The near car on it's side appears to be a reefer due to the door and ice hatches. It's also a single sheathed car to me. I can only recall Pennsy R7 and a similar Reading cars like that. Wouldn't a SS reefer have little ability to keep things cool?

Thanks for any help.
oldline1


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Bill S. wrote:

"Some produce didn’t need icing-just air flow. Potatoes, and I believe onions among the produce were so shipped. Were some (uninsulated) cars used for the brief(heavy) potato runs(seed potatoes in the spring, product in the fall)? Those cars could be used for other purposes the rest of the year. ACL ‘Watermellon’ (ventilated)cars had barred doors, and regular doors for other freight. The insulation, bunkers, etc. would use up a lot of space. Does anyone know if they had ‘ventilated’ box cars? Respectfully, Bill S."

Hi Bill,

    Your post is a little confusing  with regard to ventilated boxcars in that it seen you might think they were insulated where I've never heard of that being the case. The whole purpose of ventiated boxcars was to provide air flow through the cars in the warmer months to prevent crops like watermelons from begining to over ripen or rot.  In theory I suppose bagged potatoes could be shipped in ventilated boxcars during the early fall and late spring months when there was no chance for them to freeze or overheat though I have no knowledge of that ever being done. They are best kept in cool, dry condtions. which is why roads like the Bangor & Aroostook rostered so many insulated box cars. These cars were not refrigerated but certainly were insulated and some also had heaters for use in winter shipment. In the hottest summer months refrigerated cars had to be used to prevent spoilage enroute. Most export seed potatoes from the US normally moved in the winter to be where they were needed by spring in the northern hemisphere. The last time I was in Winterport, Maine during the winter was between Christmas and New Year in 1976, Winterport having docking faciities just up the Penobscot River from its mouth at Searsport. At that time there was a German freighter loading seed potatoes and three or four more riding at anchor in the river waiting their turn. Unfortunately the grade of seed potatoes that were sent down the BAR for them did not meet the inspectors requirements, so we were told on the return trip when questions were asked as to where all the ship went so quckly. We were told they had sailed for New Orleans to load seed potatoes from Idaho instead. This was business lost to the BAR due to issues with Aroostook County potato growers not taking proper care of their crops in harvesting and storage. Before increasing the number of its own insulated boxcars and reefers in the post WW II era the BAR used large numbers of MDT reefers in the white paint with the blue & red strripes along the bottom of their sides. Entire trains of these cars were turned over to the Maine Central which in turn handed them over to the Boston & Maine to move them along to their destinations outsie of New England. Now almost all potatoes leaving main are shipped in tractor-trailer loads. From the mid-1970's on many of the BAR's insulaed boxcars and reefers were conversed into wood chip cars at the road's shop in Derby, Maine

    I can't speak about onion transport but expect some of the folks in Iowa might hace some knowledge of that.

My best, Don Valentine


Tony Thompson
 

"Some produce didn’t need icing-just air flow. Potatoes, and I believe onions among the produce were so shipped."

     This comment is misleading. Every type of produce had a preferred shipping temperature and the range was very broad, from 33 degrees to 65 degrees or more (Fahrenheit). In the fall, cooler weather meant that crops like potatoes and onions, at the upper end of those temperature ranges, could be shipped with ventilation only and achieve the desired temperatures. But that depended on outside temperature, so a blanket statement that a kind of produce "didn't need icing" cannot be general.
      The USDA table of those temperatures is on page 345 of the PFE book.

Tony Thompson




erieblt2
 

Thank you Tony. I based my comments on what I saw on Long Island in the 50’s. Makes sense that if an unusual cold snap, or heat blast hit-then adjustments would be required. I appreciate the input. Bill S.


On May 21, 2020, at 11:59 AM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


"Some produce didn’t need icing-just air flow. Potatoes, and I believe onions among the produce were so shipped."

     This comment is misleading. Every type of produce had a preferred shipping temperature and the range was very broad, from 33 degrees to 65 degrees or more (Fahrenheit). In the fall, cooler weather meant that crops like potatoes and onions, at the upper end of those temperature ranges, could be shipped with ventilation only and achieve the desired temperatures. But that depended on outside temperature, so a blanket statement that a kind of produce "didn't need icing" cannot be general.
      The USDA table of those temperatures is on page 345 of the PFE book.

Tony Thompson