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Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Can anyone say what exactly is going on here? Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?
 
 
Enjoy
 
Claus Schlund
 


Bruce Smith
 

Claus,

Those look like early wood chip cars.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:44 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?
 
Hi List Members,
 
Can anyone say what exactly is going on here? Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?
 
 
Enjoy
 
Claus Schlund
 


Todd Sullivan
 

Woodchips, most likely for paper manufacture.

The SP sent a lot of chips up their line to Portland and on via the NP to Longview Fiber in Longview WA.

Todd Sullivan


Paul Doggett
 

SP 50’ door and a half automobile cars had there roofs cut off for wood chip service in the fifties.
Paul Doggett    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 2 Jun 2020, at 20:59, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
Can anyone say what exactly is going on here? Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?
 
 
Enjoy
 
Claus Schlund
 


Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jun 2, 2020, at 12:44, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,

Can anyone say what exactly is going on here? Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

https://oregondigital.org/catalog/oregondigital:df65vv071
My muse whispers "wood chips" in my ear.


Bill Decker
 

Claus,

Definitely wood chips.  At that point in the 1950s (1958), Georgia Pacific was shipping wood chips from the mill at Toledo, Oregon.  GP purchased the Toledo mill from C.D. Johnson in 1956.  I just spotted a picture of the first outbound load of wood chips from Toledo in a 1957 photo in "Forest Rails, Georgia-Pacific's Railroads."  That picture has SP 350477, a G-50-20-A, a composite GS gon with early chip extensions---the ones with an inboard-slanted top.   At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill sold in the 1920s to CD Johnson was strictly a lumber mill.  

Sometime later (date TBD), a pulp and paper mill was added at Toledo--well past the era of our Steam Era list.  That must have been in the 1960's, as I well remember long strings of wood chip gondolas rolling through Corvallis headed out TO Toledo (not from), making for heavy trains to and from Toledo on the Oregon Coast.  That is beyond our list era.  Actually, even the subject photo (1958) and my "first wood chip shipment" photo (1957) are beyond steam, which died on Western Oregon lines of the SP in late 1955.

Bill Decker.
McMinnville, Oregon


Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jun 2, 2020, at 16:32, Bill Decker <sp.billd@...> wrote:

[...]

At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill
... as in Goose? I've been wondering (idly) where the wood for that project got milled.


Richard Townsend
 

The Spruce Goose was made of birch plywood, not spruce. The spruce originally was used for WWI airplanes.

On Jun 2, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Nolan Hinshaw via groups.io <cearnog=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Jun 2, 2020, at 16:32, Bill Decker <sp.billd@...> wrote:

[...]

At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill
... as in Goose? I've been wondering (idly) where the wood for that project got milled.




Todd Sullivan
 

The Spruce Division was part of the U.S.'s WWI effort to increase war material production.  In those days, aircraft were made mostly of wood (spruce) and fabric.  That's where the majority of the spruce production went. There's a chapter in "Railroads in the Woods" that has photos and a discussion of the Spruce Division,its woods railroads and mills.

Todd Sullivan


Donald B. Valentine
 

    The US Army had a number of sources for the quality of spruce needed for the Spads and other planes built 
for use in The Great War. To my knowledge all were sold in the 1920's but I don't know about the various forest 
reserves. Lots of spruce and other commodities were moved by rail to the various aircraft assembly plants during 
WW I. The Stearman, later Boeing, PT-17 biplane trainer also used a lot of spruce. The fuselage frame is
largely of tubular metal construction but the wings are another story, being largely fabric covered spruce that 
are constructed like a Guillow's model airplanes and then, like the paper covering of the models, is coated with 
dope. Neat aircraft, The molder for the NERS #250 A/C Duct kit, which is a tricky mold to run, has two of the 
them nearby and I never turn down an offer for a flight. There are usually a number of them at the Mid-Atlantic
Air Show in Reading, PA that was supposed to have been this weekend but has tentatively been rescheduled 
for 31 July and 1 & 2 August where rides can be purchased.

    Where is Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" now? That thing needs to be reconditioned and flown to Dulles for
permanent display at the Smithsonian Aircraft Museum there.  The museum is well worth a visit for anyone
with a modicum of interest in older aircraft especially with no admission charge.

My best, Don Valentine


Richard Townsend
 

The SpruceGoose is at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon. It is in excellent shape and on public display in this excellent museum.


On Jun 3, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


    The US Army had a number of sources for the quality of spruce needed for the Spads and other planes built 
for use in The Great War. To my knowledge all were sold in the 1920's but I don't know about the various forest 
reserves. Lots of spruce and other commodities were moved by rail to the various aircraft assembly plants during 
WW I. The Stearman, later Boeing, PT-17 biplane trainer also used a lot of spruce. The fuselage frame is
largely of tubular metal construction but the wings are another story, being largely fabric covered spruce that 
are constructed like a Guillow's model airplanes and then, like the paper covering of the models, is coated with 
dope. Neat aircraft, The molder for the NERS #250 A/C Duct kit, which is a tricky mold to run, has two of the 
them nearby and I never turn down an offer for a flight. There are usually a number of them at the Mid-Atlantic
Air Show in Reading, PA that was supposed to have been this weekend but has tentatively been rescheduled 
for 31 July and 1 & 2 August where rides can be purchased.

    Where is Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" now? That thing needs to be reconditioned and flown to Dulles for
permanent display at the Smithsonian Aircraft Museum there.  The museum is well worth a visit for anyone
with a modicum of interest in older aircraft especially with no admission charge.

My best, Don Valentine


Bill Decker
 

Nolan,

The "Spruce" in Spruce Goose actually is not Spruce.  It is Canadian pine.  That bird rests within five miles of where I am typing this.....  

Beyond that, the US Army Spruce Division was a World War One phenomena.  Airplanes of that era were built of wood.  WW2 saw a few wood aircraft, most notably the British Mosquito.  Howard Hughes Spruce Goose attempted to tap into the use of wood, as well.

Back to the wood chips coming out of Toledo Oregon in the mid-late 1950s.  A further check with local sources indicates the Georgia-Pacific pulp and paper mill at Toledo opened in 1958, obviously after the earlier referenced photo.  That makes shipping wood chips out of Toledo a brief phenomena of 1957 and part of 1958.  Thereafter, it was long strings of wood chip cars going out to Toledo on the Oregon Coast, passing through the middle of Corvallis (my home town) on their way.  As noted previously, all of this took place after SP steam dropped its fires, although G-P may well have had their steam locomotive still working out at the mill at Toledo.

Bill Deckder
McMinnville, Oregon


Armand Premo
 

Sawdust was also used in great quantities in RR ice houses to provide insulation between layers of ice .Armand Premo


Jon Miller
 

On 6/3/2020 10:09 AM, Armand Premo wrote:
Sawdust was also used in great quantities in RR ice houses

    I lived for a while in Eugene, OR and seem to remember that saw dust was used in furnaces there.  Can't remember the time frame however.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Jim Hayes
 

When I moved to Oregon in 1974, my 1st manager used a sawdust furnace for home heating.

    JimH


Jon Miller
 

On 6/3/2020 10:17 AM, Jim Hayes wrote:
When I moved to Oregon in 1974, my 1st manager used a sawdust furnace for home heating.

    I  was there in the late 50s so my memory isn't totally kaput!  Was it ever shipped in RR cars?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Armand Premo
 

YES 

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:31 PM Jon Miller <atsfus@...> wrote:
On 6/3/2020 10:17 AM, Jim Hayes wrote:
When I moved to Oregon in 1974, my 1st manager used a sawdust furnace for home heating.

    I  was there in the late 50s so my memory isn't totally kaput!  Was it ever shipped in RR cars?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tony Thompson
 

Richard Townsend  wrote:

The SpruceGoose is at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon. It is in excellent shape and on public display in this excellent museum.

   Full agreement, it's a superb museum. Well worth the visit.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

Armand Premo wrote:

Sawdust was also used in great quantities in RR ice houses to provide insulation between layers of ice .

     Yes, in the early days. When they realized it clogged the drains in the reefers, the use was discontinued.

Tony Thompson




mel perry
 

which begs the question, why into
toledo, did GP repurpose the mill?
or what?
thanks
mel perry

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 9:00 AM Bill Decker <sp.billd@...> wrote:
Nolan,

The "Spruce" in Spruce Goose actually is not Spruce.  It is Canadian pine.  That bird rests within five miles of where I am typing this.....  

Beyond that, the US Army Spruce Division was a World War One phenomena.  Airplanes of that era were built of wood.  WW2 saw a few wood aircraft, most notably the British Mosquito.  Howard Hughes Spruce Goose attempted to tap into the use of wood, as well.

Back to the wood chips coming out of Toledo Oregon in the mid-late 1950s.  A further check with local sources indicates the Georgia-Pacific pulp and paper mill at Toledo opened in 1958, obviously after the earlier referenced photo.  That makes shipping wood chips out of Toledo a brief phenomena of 1957 and part of 1958.  Thereafter, it was long strings of wood chip cars going out to Toledo on the Oregon Coast, passing through the middle of Corvallis (my home town) on their way.  As noted previously, all of this took place after SP steam dropped its fires, although G-P may well have had their steam locomotive still working out at the mill at Toledo.

Bill Deckder
McMinnville, Oregon