Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Schuyler Larrabee
There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each). There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action. I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away. The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water. Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure. I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.
And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement. Cement is an element in making concrete. Cement is not, directly, concrete.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular
What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cement is not concrete was drummed into my head when I was in the contracting business years ago. On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:08 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
--
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ray Hutchison
not certain how many here would have heard of Tennessee Central Railroad (essentially Nashville east through Cookeville and Monterrey). Early shipments included sand for construction. It was shut down for many years until the recent boom in fracking... and there are weekly shipments of sand coming out of the mountains (or at least down from the eastern highland rim of the Cumberland Plateau). I assume this is the coarse angular sand mentioned in earlier email. Interestingly enough, one of the major sand pits is across the street from a fundamentalist church. I always wondered how people came out of the church and looked at the acres of sand across the street and wondered how it got there, ray hutchison On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 12:14 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andy Laurent
In Wisconsin, GB&W moved sand and gravel in open twin hoppers from online pits to a concrete batch plant in Green Bay well into the 1960s. WSOR still does this today, moving both sand and gravel in open hoppers (until a couple years ago in railroad-owned conversions of 1958 cu ft LO's - similar to the new Bowser kit) from a pit north of Janesville to concrete plants in Burke, Middleton, and Monroe.
Andy L. Madison WI |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andy Carlson
So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"????? Showing my age---Andy Carlson Ojai CA
And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement. Cement is an element in making concrete. Cement is not, directly, concrete.
Schuyler |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Schuyler Larrabee
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghh!!
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:54 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"?????
Showing my age---Andy Carlson Ojai CA
And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement. Cement is an element in making concrete. Cement is not, directly, concrete.
Schuyler
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Clark Propst
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nelson Moyer
Clark,
I looked up my Q hopper roster to get the car classes, and I don’t find series 190000-191749 listed as such. I found 19000-19499 (HT-1) and 190500-190999 (HT-2). The next class I have is 192000-192599 (HT-5), 192600-193049 and 193100-193199 (HT-5A steel), and 193500-193749 (HT-5A composite). I don’t show any Q hoppers numbered 191000-191999. I also don’t have any information about a HT-3 or HT-4 class, which possibly could fill in the 191000 -191999 series. Is it possible that 191749 is a typo? If not where did you get the 1910000 series information?
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:11 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rupert Gamlen
190000-191749 were twin hoppers in classes HT-1 to HT-4, built between 1926 and 1929 with an outside length of 35’ 1”. 190672 was an HT-2, built at Galesburg in 1927-8.
192000-193199 covered classes HT-5 and HT-5A built at Galesburg and Havelock between 1936 and 1945, basically identical to the earlier classes.
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2020 7:00 am To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Clark,
I looked up my Q hopper roster to get the car classes, and I don’t find series 190000-191749 listed as such. I found 19000-19499 (HT-1) and 190500-190999 (HT-2). The next class I have is 192000-192599 (HT-5), 192600-193049 and 193100-193199 (HT-5A steel), and 193500-193749 (HT-5A composite). I don’t show any Q hoppers numbered 191000-191999. I also don’t have any information about a HT-3 or HT-4 class, which possibly could fill in the 191000 -191999 series. Is it possible that 191749 is a typo? If not where did you get the 1910000 series information?
Nelson Moyer
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nelson Moyer
Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster. Here’s what I have. Will you provide the missing data?
Class Series Built Type Brake Truck HC-1 180000-180199 1940-48 70 ton Klasing National 180200-180299 1943 70 ton National 180300-180399 1945 70 ton Universal Double truss 184000-180499 1946 70 ton Double truss 180500-180649 1948 70 ton Universal Double truss HC-1A 180650-180849 1951 70 ton Double truss 180850-181049 1952 70 ton Miner Double truss HT-1 190000-190499 1926 55 ton Perfection or Ajax Dalman HT-2 190500-190999 1927-28 55 ton #48 HT-5 192000-192249 1936 55 ton 192250-192499 1937 55 ton 192500-192599 1938 55 ton HT-5A Steel 192600-192849 1940 55 ton 192850-193049 1941 55 ton 193100-193199 1945 55 ton National HT-5A Composite 193500-193749 1942-44 50 ton HT-5B 189000-189649 1945 55 ton 189650-189999 1946 55 ton HT-5C 188000-188999 1947-48 55 ton HT-7 Composite 193500-193749 1943 55 ton Ajax double truss HT-8 Composite 194000-194399 1944 50 ton Ajax or Miner ASF (#65A) 194400-194999 1944 50 ton Ajax or Miner National HT-10 170000-170449 1948-49 70 ton #70 HT-10A 170500-171099 1951 70 ton #73B 171100-171849 1953 70 tom #83
In addition to adding new information, please feel free to make any corrections to the data I compiled.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:46 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
190000-191749 were twin hoppers in classes HT-1 to HT-4, built between 1926 and 1929 with an outside length of 35’ 1”. 190672 was an HT-2, built at Galesburg in 1927-8.
192000-193199 covered classes HT-5 and HT-5A built at Galesburg and Havelock between 1936 and 1945, basically identical to the earlier
classes. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Clark Propst
I'm good at passing blame : )) Gene Green who transcribed the info from the M&StL's mechanical engineer's notes.
CW (wasn't me) Propst |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rupert Gamlen
HT-3 191000-191499 HT-4 191500-191749
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2020 11:14 am To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nelson Moyer
Thanks for the HT-3 and HT-4 series ranges.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 5:46 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
HT-3 191000-191499 HT-4 191500-191749
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chet
Pretty sure the DTI 7023 was one of the early Shake N Take cars. I would guess the chance of the DTI gon showing up on the M&StL is more surprising
then a ATSF auto car showing up on the CB&Q. Chet French Dixon, IL |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|