Topics

Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular


Chet
 

Pretty sure the DTI 7023 was one of the early Shake N Take cars.   I would guess the chance of the DTI gon showing up on the M&StL is more surprising
then a ATSF auto car showing up on the CB&Q.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for the HT-3 and HT-4 series ranges.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 5:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

HT-3 191000-191499

HT-4 191500-191749


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2020 11:14 am
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster.

 


Rupert Gamlen
 

HT-3 191000-191499

HT-4 191500-191749


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2020 11:14 am
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster.


Clark Propst
 

I'm good at passing blame :  )) Gene Green who transcribed the info from the M&StL's mechanical engineer's notes.
CW (wasn't me) Propst


Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster. Here’s what I have. Will you provide the missing data?

 

Class                           Series                    Built          Type      Brake Truck

HC-1                           180000-180199     1940-48     70 ton                               Klasing                  National

                                    180200-180299     1943          70 ton                                                             National

                                    180300-180399     1945          70 ton                               Universal              Double truss

                                    184000-180499     1946          70 ton                                                             Double truss            

                                    180500-180649     1948          70 ton                               Universal              Double truss            

HC-1A                        180650-180849     1951          70 ton                                                             Double truss

                                    180850-181049     1952          70 ton                               Miner                    Double truss

HT-1                           190000-190499     1926          55 ton     Perfection or Ajax                        Dalman

HT-2                           190500-190999     1927-28     55 ton                                                             #48

HT-5                           192000-192249     1936          55 ton

                                    192250-192499     1937          55 ton

                                    192500-192599     1938          55 ton

HT-5A Steel               192600-192849     1940          55 ton

                                    192850-193049     1941          55 ton

                                    193100-193199     1945          55 ton                                                             National

HT-5A Composite      193500-193749     1942-44     50 ton    

HT-5B                         189000-189649     1945          55 ton

                                    189650-189999     1946          55 ton

HT-5C                         188000-188999     1947-48     55 ton

HT-7 Composite         193500-193749     1943          55 ton                               Ajax                      double truss

HT-8 Composite         194000-194399     1944          50 ton     Ajax or Miner                          ASF (#65A)

                                    194400-194999     1944          50 ton     Ajax or Miner                          National

HT-10                         170000-170449     1948-49     70 ton                                                             #70

HT-10A                       170500-171099     1951          70 ton                                                             #73B                       

                                    171100-171849     1953          70 tom                                                            #83                          

 

In addition to adding new information, please feel free to make any corrections to the data I compiled.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

190000-191749 were twin hoppers in classes HT-1 to HT-4, built between 1926 and 1929 with an outside length of 35’ 1”.

190672 was an HT-2, built at Galesburg in 1927-8.

 

192000-193199 covered classes HT-5 and HT-5A built at Galesburg and Havelock between 1936 and 1945, basically identical to the earlier classes.
192362 was one of 300 built at Galesburg in 1936-7.

Rupert Gamlen


Rupert Gamlen
 

190000-191749 were twin hoppers in classes HT-1 to HT-4, built between 1926 and 1929 with an outside length of 35’ 1”.

190672 was an HT-2, built at Galesburg in 1927-8.

 

192000-193199 covered classes HT-5 and HT-5A built at Galesburg and Havelock between 1936 and 1945, basically identical to the earlier classes.
192362 was one of 300 built at Galesburg in 1936-7.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2020 7:00 am
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Clark,

 

I looked up my Q hopper roster to get the car classes, and I don’t find series 190000-191749 listed as such. I found 19000-19499 (HT-1) and 190500-190999 (HT-2). The next class I have is 192000-192599 (HT-5), 192600-193049 and 193100-193199 (HT-5A steel), and 193500-193749 (HT-5A composite). I don’t show any Q hoppers numbered 191000-191999. I also don’t have any information about a HT-3 or HT-4 class, which possibly could fill in the 191000 -191999 series. Is it possible that 191749 is a typo? If not where did you get the 1910000 series information?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59


Nelson Moyer
 

Clark,

 

I looked up my Q hopper roster to get the car classes, and I don’t find series 190000-191749 listed as such. I found 19000-19499 (HT-1) and 190500-190999 (HT-2). The next class I have is 192000-192599 (HT-5), 192600-193049 and 193100-193199 (HT-5A steel), and 193500-193749 (HT-5A composite). I don’t show any Q hoppers numbered 191000-191999. I also don’t have any information about a HT-3 or HT-4 class, which possibly could fill in the 191000 -191999 series. Is it possible that 191749 is a typo? If not where did you get the 1910000 series information?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59


Clark Propst
 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.


RR NO_ SERIES TYPE1 CARGO DATE
CB&Q 190672 190000-191749 HM sand 10/2/59
CB&Q 192362 192000-193199 HM sand 9/4/59
DTI 7023 7000-7299 GBS sand 9/2/59
GN 74989 74500-74999 GS sand        "9-11-50"
IC 93646 92000-93749 HM sand        "7-28-50"
M&StL 30487 30001-30499 GS sand 7/15/59
M&StL 65181 65001-65255 HM sand 4/25/59
M&StL 66013 66001-66499 HT sand        "7-15-48"
M&StL 70005 700003-70017 LO sand 6/19/59
WAB 37263 37000-37799 HM sand 8/14/59
WAB 37552 37000-37799 HM sand 9/28/59
WAB 37786 37000-37799 HM sand 9/30/59


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghh!!

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"?????

 

Showing my age---Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 


Andy Carlson
 

So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"?????

Showing my age---Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 


Andy Laurent
 

In Wisconsin, GB&W moved sand and gravel in open twin hoppers from online pits to a concrete batch plant in Green Bay well into the 1960s.  WSOR still does this today, moving both sand and gravel in open hoppers (until a couple years ago in railroad-owned conversions of 1958 cu ft LO's - similar to the new Bowser kit) from a pit north of Janesville to concrete plants in Burke, Middleton, and Monroe.

Andy L.
Madison WI


Ray Hutchison
 

not certain how many here would have heard of Tennessee Central Railroad (essentially Nashville east through Cookeville and Monterrey).  Early shipments included sand for construction.  It was shut down for many years until the recent boom in fracking... and there are weekly shipments of sand coming out of the mountains (or at least down from the eastern highland rim of the Cumberland Plateau).  I assume this is the coarse angular sand mentioned in earlier email. 

Interestingly enough, one of the major sand pits is across the street from a fundamentalist church.  I always wondered how people came out of the church and looked at the acres of sand across the street and wondered how it got there,

ray hutchison

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 12:14 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Cement is not concrete was drummed into my head when I was in the contracting business years ago.  

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:08 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


O Fenton Wells
 

Cement is not concrete was drummed into my head when I was in the contracting business years ago.  


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:08 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Schuyler Larrabee
 

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com