[Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Very interesting, Clark. Are you saying these were all gons?
Thanks!
Elden Gatwood
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
|
RR |
NO_ |
SERIES |
TYPE1 |
CARGO |
DATE |
|
CB&Q |
190672 |
190000-191749 |
HM |
sand |
10/2/59 |
|
CB&Q |
192362 |
192000-193199 |
HM |
sand |
9/4/59 |
|
DTI |
7023 |
7000-7299 |
GBS |
sand |
9/2/59 |
|
GN |
74989 |
74500-74999 |
GS |
sand |
"9-11-50" |
|
IC |
93646 |
92000-93749 |
HM |
sand |
"7-28-50" |
|
M&StL |
30487 |
30001-30499 |
GS |
sand |
7/15/59 |
|
M&StL |
65181 |
65001-65255 |
HM |
sand |
4/25/59 |
|
M&StL |
66013 |
66001-66499 |
HT |
sand |
"7-15-48" |
|
M&StL |
70005 |
700003-70017 |
LO |
sand |
6/19/59 |
|
WAB |
37263 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
8/14/59 |
|
WAB |
37552 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
9/28/59 |
|
WAB |
37786 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
9/30/59 |
The IC car is a 55 ton open hopper. Built in 1949 by Pullman Standard. From the car diagram it looks like the Alternate Standard Offset Hopper that the IC had thousands of.
Jeff White
Alma, IL
Very interesting, Clark. Are you saying these were all gons?
Thanks!
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
RR
NO_
SERIES
TYPE1
CARGO
DATE
CB&Q
190672
190000-191749
HM
sand
10/2/59
CB&Q
192362
192000-193199
HM
sand
9/4/59
DTI
7023
7000-7299
GBS
sand
9/2/59
GN
74989
74500-74999
GS
sand
"9-11-50"
IC
93646
92000-93749
HM
sand
"7-28-50"
M&StL
30487
30001-30499
GS
sand
7/15/59
M&StL
65181
65001-65255
HM
sand
4/25/59
M&StL
66013
66001-66499
HT
sand
"7-15-48"
M&StL
70005
700003-70017
LO
sand
6/19/59
WAB
37263
37000-37799
HM
sand
8/14/59
WAB
37552
37000-37799
HM
sand
9/28/59
WAB
37786
37000-37799
HM
sand
9/30/59
The HM cars are hoppers.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Very interesting, Clark. Are you saying these were all gons?
Thanks!
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
|
RR |
NO_ |
SERIES |
TYPE1 |
CARGO |
DATE |
|
CB&Q |
190672 |
190000-191749 |
HM |
sand |
10/2/59 |
|
CB&Q |
192362 |
192000-193199 |
HM |
sand |
9/4/59 |
|
DTI |
7023 |
7000-7299 |
GBS |
sand |
9/2/59 |
|
GN |
74989 |
74500-74999 |
GS |
sand |
"9-11-50" |
|
IC |
93646 |
92000-93749 |
HM |
sand |
"7-28-50" |
|
M&StL |
30487 |
30001-30499 |
GS |
sand |
7/15/59 |
|
M&StL |
65181 |
65001-65255 |
HM |
sand |
4/25/59 |
|
M&StL |
66013 |
66001-66499 |
HT |
sand |
"7-15-48" |
|
M&StL |
70005 |
700003-70017 |
LO |
sand |
6/19/59 |
|
WAB |
37263 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
8/14/59 |
|
WAB |
37552 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
9/28/59 |
|
WAB |
37786 |
37000-37799 |
HM |
sand |
9/30/59 |
Elden, the HM and HT are open hoppers. The GS & GBS are gons. The LO is one of the MSTL covered hoppers used for company sand. They only had 10 of these cars.
Also note that Clark has typed an extra 0 in the MSTL LO listing.
It is quite possible an error was contained in the handwritten documents from which Clark has transcribed into his spreadsheet.
From another source, on the MSTL:
7/6/1945 NH 60587 load of sand to Clare Iowa
7/13/1947 PRR 334732 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA
7/13/1947 NH 58108 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA
7/13/1947 MSTL 30423 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA
7/16/1947 MSTL 30291 Co sand
8/8/1947 CBQ 166113 sand to Grand Jct IA
MSTL 30423 & 30291 were GA all steel 41’ drop bottom gons
You’ll have to look up the other cars yourself.
Doug Harding (another MSTL fan)
www.iowacentralrr.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Very interesting, Clark. Are you saying these were all gons?
Thanks!
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.
RR | NO_ | SERIES | TYPE1 | CARGO | DATE |
CB&Q | 190672 | 190000-191749 | HM | sand | 10/2/59 |
CB&Q | 192362 | 192000-193199 | HM | sand | 9/4/59 |
DTI | 7023 | 7000-7299 | GBS | sand | 9/2/59 |
GN | 74989 | 74500-74999 | GS | sand | "9-11-50" |
IC | 93646 | 92000-93749 | HM | sand | "7-28-50" |
M&StL | 30487 | 30001-30499 | GS | sand | 7/15/59 |
M&StL | 65181 | 65001-65255 | HM | sand | 4/25/59 |
M&StL | 66013 | 66001-66499 | HT | sand | "7-15-48" |
M&StL | 70005 | 700003-70017 | LO | sand | 6/19/59 |
WAB | 37263 | 37000-37799 | HM | sand | 8/14/59 |
WAB | 37552 | 37000-37799 | HM | sand | 9/28/59 |
WAB | 37786 | 37000-37799 | HM | sand | 9/30/59 |
Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.
Randy
--
—
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com
Randy lots of sand pits in Iowa. The car was coming from Des Moines. Des Moines has two rivers, and lots of sand and gravel pits. I suspect the car was loaded in the Des Moines area. The bigger question is what was a NH 41’ gon doing in Iowa? It must have been off loaded in Des Moines, perhaps on the MSTL. Then loaded with sand and the MSTL took it to Dallas Center team track for the Highway Department. Des Moines did/does have a lot of manufacturing.
Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 12:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas.
Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.
Randy
--
—
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com
For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA. I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation. From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.
Peter Ness
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas.
Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.
Randy
--
—
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com
As long as everyone is weighing in on the transportation of various types of sand here goes. The Monon had lot of sand on line near Lake Michigan at Michigan City, IN, known as the Indiana Sand Dunes. Old photos show sand being shoveled into boxcars, destinations unknown.
Particularly interesting is how locomotive sand was handled at Monon, Indiana, up until about 1969. The Monon RR had a 3 stall engine house at Monon , IN, and kept 1 to 3 locomotives there at any given time. The engine house was actually 4 stalls wide, but the second stall from the south did not have a track going into it. Instead that was where a sand drying furnace was located.
Locomotive sand was hauled in in gondolas from Michigan City. The gon was spotted inside the engine house on the first track to the south. The sand was then shoveled into the drier as needed. Dried sand was carried to the locomotives in buckets and dispensed into them.
The Monon dieselized in 1946 and 1947, in the steam era for the purposes of this list. (all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe) Most power was EMD and sand filler hatches were located on the sides of the F-3's and BL-2's about the same level as the cab floors. A full length platform was therefore built on both sides of the northerly most engine house stall track which also had the inspection pit. This allowed the bucket carrying hostler to walk up a set of steps and onto a platform to add sand to the locomotive being serviced.
Lots of hard work for a lot of years. This system was only replaced when the engine house was torn down and locomotive servicing moved closer to the station near downtown Monon. Overhead sanding towers and hoses were installed at that time, well beyond the steam era.
Mont Switzer
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA. I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation. From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.
Peter Ness
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular
The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas.
Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data
for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.
Randy
--
—
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com
(all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)I donno Mont. It was well into the diesel era before the CSS&SB (South Shore) dieselized.
Dennis Storzek