Topics

Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida


Tim O'Connor
 


Lots of shoes were made in New England. Frye Boots and Rockport were both in Marlboro MA where I used to live.
There's a shoemakers statue in a park there. The New Haven and B&M each had branchlines into Marlboro that served
the shoe factories. The NH branch line runs from Framingham to Fitchburg and is still active (it runs through Sterling, too,
where I now live). The B&M branch from Hudson (where it crossed the old Mass Central) is now a bike trail.


On 7/10/2020 9:47 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Ditto on Dexters.  What I really liked was that I could absolutely rely on the size and fit.  I bought 10½ D without even bothering to try them on.  Once they left Maine, that went to hell in a handbasket.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walter Cox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.

Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

 

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ditto on Dexters.  What I really liked was that I could absolutely rely on the size and fit.  I bought 10½ D without even bothering to try them on.  Once they left Maine, that went to hell in a handbasket.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walter Cox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.

Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

 

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch

 


Mont Switzer
 

Cranberries:  the folks around Warren, Wisconsin, Cranberry Museum say their state is the largest cranberry producing state in the US.

 

Idaho:  I thought they were growing french fries there.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walter Cox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.

Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

 

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch

 


Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

One more time guys.  Prior to about 1942, there wasn't any such thing as a "free runner"

     I'm not sure what Dave based this statement on, and have looked into the history of freight car handling to see if I could see what he meant.
      I already replied that essentially the same Car Service Rules in place through the 1950s had been adopted by the AAR in 1934. But that only reflects some minor modifications at that time in the existing rules.
       I went back to E.W. Coughlin's book, _Freight Car Distribution and Car Handling in the United States_ of 1956, published by the AAR's Car Service Division, for which Coughlin worked. In discussing the Car Service Rules, he observed that freight car handling between railroads was governed by essentially the same principles and "the same Code of Car Service Rules as adopted in the closing years of the last century" [19th century].
        So effectively the first sixty years of the 20th century were governed by those rules, and though they continued in force thereafter, the widening use of Special Car Order 90 directions for direct return homeward of a growing variety of cars certainly began to erode the previous patterns of car movement.

Tony Thompson




Walter Cox
 


There were also differences in the dates that the crop matured in the various growing areas.

 

Re: Potatoes

Were the same varieties of potatoes grown in Idaho & Maine?  I’ve no idea what kinds were grown in Maine.  My image of an Idaho potato is just the Russets, but that may be more out of ignorance (maybe I should look at the bags, next time I’m in the store ;-) than any actual knowledge of what varieties are/were grown in Idaho.

_._,_._,_


Walter Cox
 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.
Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch


_._,_._,_


Rick Naylor
 

Diamond Match Company. Berst-Forster-Dixfield Division. Timber Unit.

The collection contains records of the Timber Unit of the Diamond Match Company's Berst-Forster-Dixfield Division. The Timber Unit, located in Oakland, Maine, was responsible for the purchase, transportation, and production of the lumber used to manufacture the company's products in Maine. It contracted with various lumber camps in the state for its supplies. The company had a long history in Oakland, beginning as the Forster Manufacturing Company in 1913. This company manufactured toothpicks and clothespins until 1916, when it was succeeded by the Berst-Forster-Dixfield Company, headquartered in New York City, which operated from 1923 to 1946. This company was succeeded by Diamond Match Company in 1947, which seems to have absorbed Berst-Forster sometime before that. Diamond Match had been formed in 1881 when twelve already-existing match companies agreed to consolidate into one. Diamond Match took over 85% of the market in the 1880's and in 1910 patented the first non-poisonous match in the United States. In 1957 it merged with Gardner Board and Carton Company to form Diamond-Gardner; in 1959 it merged with United States Printing and Lithograph Company to become Diamond National Corporation and then became Diamond International in 1964. It operated in several states and in addition to its mill in Oakland also had mills in Rumford, Phillips, and Dixfield, Maine. During its operation in Oakland, the plant made a number of products, including ice cream sticks, swab sticks, lollypop holders, toothpicks and woodenware. In its peak years just before World War II, the mill at Oakland employed over 500 people and its activities also gave work to loggers and others who provided raw materials to the mill. The operation in Oakland closed in 1983.




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 2:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida
 
   Tim,   
The wooden match company in the Duluth area was Diamond Match company located in Cloquet, MN. The GN had a line from Duluth/Superior going west through there and the NP had a branch from Carlton, MN going to Cloquet. The Milwaukee had trackage rights over the Twin Cities / Twin Ports line with rights to Cloquet also. All three lines competed for this traffic as there were other decent sized mills in Cloquet making particleboard also.  Cloquet was the terminus for the Cloquet & North Eastern Rwy which was notable for running a number of steam locomotives well into the 1960s. And several Trains photo writeups about Where to still find steam. 

Sulphuric Acid on the spuds. Well that answers it.    McDonalds wanted clean white potatoes for their fries. Maine potatoes had been sent out prior as the standard. However they could not get the uniform whiteness that the commercial market or McD wanted for french fries - so that is when Idaho took over and Maine spuds became an also ran. I recall maybe thirty years ago after some late spring skiing at Sun Valley (girls skiing in bikinis, guys in shorts and T's) my brother and I had a relaxed schedule home and wondered about going south following the UP east to Fremont and heading up from there following the old Omaha line, which was literally on the shoulder of the road at times before it was rebuilt some years ago.  On going south through Idaho, our western friends said no, no, no, they are spraying the potato fields! They want people to stay out area for three days after spraying. That was enough to convince us.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Jim Dick - Roseville, MN


np328
 

   Tim,   
The wooden match company in the Duluth area was Diamond Match company located in Cloquet, MN. The GN had a line from Duluth/Superior going west through there and the NP had a branch from Carlton, MN going to Cloquet. The Milwaukee had trackage rights over the Twin Cities / Twin Ports line with rights to Cloquet also. All three lines competed for this traffic as there were other decent sized mills in Cloquet making particleboard also.  Cloquet was the terminus for the Cloquet & North Eastern Rwy which was notable for running a number of steam locomotives well into the 1960s. And several Trains photo writeups about Where to still find steam. 

Sulphuric Acid on the spuds. Well that answers it.    McDonalds wanted clean white potatoes for their fries. Maine potatoes had been sent out prior as the standard. However they could not get the uniform whiteness that the commercial market or McD wanted for french fries - so that is when Idaho took over and Maine spuds became an also ran. I recall maybe thirty years ago after some late spring skiing at Sun Valley (girls skiing in bikinis, guys in shorts and T's) my brother and I had a relaxed schedule home and wondered about going south following the UP east to Fremont and heading up from there following the old Omaha line, which was literally on the shoulder of the road at times before it was rebuilt some years ago.  On going south through Idaho, our western friends said no, no, no, they are spraying the potato fields! They want people to stay out area for three days after spraying. That was enough to convince us.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Jim Dick - Roseville, MN


Jim Allen
 

They shipped many many cars full of potatoes to the Clover Club potato chip factory in Kaysville, UT.  They said they tasted better than the Idaho ones.  So they probably shipped them elsewhere for the same reason. 
--
Jim Allen
Utah


Jim Allen
 

BAR & B&M 
shipped potatoes all over the country.  Clover Club Potato Chips in Kaysville, UT took many shipments of Maine potato’s. They have a taste of their own. 
Jim Allen
Visit oscaledirectory.com


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Donald B. Valentine
 

    In earlier years in boxcars but in post war years in gondolas with poles in

place to extend their height one could see B&M cars headed to Florida from

late October till early December each year. By now it should be obvious that

they were carrying Christmas trees. Mostly these were balsam or spruce but

other varieties are now grown as well. Alas they go by truck. Many other goods

manufactured within the B&M’s territory made to Florida by rail as well. What

might they have been loaded with for the trip back?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Also, during the frequent "car shortages" experienced by postwar railroads, I think it's a very good bet
that if a car was suitable, and was needed for an online customer, then the reporting marks were of no
consequence whatever.

     Very true, and a point to remember. Conversely, in slower economic periods, many foreign empties would be sent backwards over their service route.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Another product : wooden kitchen matches. EVERYONE needed them. One of the match makers had
an enormous factory near Duluth-Superior but there must have been others.

   There were at least two match factories in California in the WW II era.

Tony Thompson




Lee Thwaits
 

There was (is?) a large Diamond Match mill in Chico, CA making matchsticks & toothpicks ( plus other products), enough to supply most of the west.

Lee Thwaits


Tim O'Connor
 


Also, during the frequent "car shortages" experienced by postwar railroads, I think it's a very good bet
that if a car was suitable, and was needed for an online customer, then the reporting marks were of no
consequence whatever.

The GN would HOARD it own box cars prior to the grain harvest, and spot them everywhere online
near grain elevators. And since GN was always griping about the online/offline imbalance of cars due to
slow returns, I think it's a safe bet the GN assigned other railroads' cars without regard to the "rules"
(which were really just guidelines anyway) -- at least before the grain harvest.




On 7/8/2020 1:22 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
R J Dial wrote:

I've seen pics of BAR and B&M boxcars in LA and Seattle. Stuck in my mind as always wondered what would be shipped from corner to corner of the US like that. They may have been WWII photos, but can't recall for sure.

     You're assuming they were loaded by the home road and sent to the West Coast. More likely they were loaded SOMEWHERE in the U.S. and sent there. For example, the car in Seattle might have come from LA or Houston. Car Service Rules would not encourage westward movements of those cars, of course, but after WW II, the AAR surveys found that only about 2/3 of car movements were in accord with those Rules, so there is a lot of scope for "exceptions," though they really are not even exceptions.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


I was very surprised to learn that Idaho Potatoes with those wonderful brown skins.. are actually
treated with SULFURIC ACID sprayed onto the fields. The skins are a defense! :-D

I don't know how far back that goes, but it's definitely been done for a while now.

On 7/8/2020 11:23 PM, akerboomk wrote:

RE: B&M cars.

There’s always the Jones and Lamson Machine Tool works from Springfield VT (Shipped on the Springfield Terminal)  Sending machine tools to Boeing (or some aviation supplier)?

 

Re: Potatoes

Were the same varieties of potatoes grown in Idaho & Maine?  I’ve no idea what kinds were grown in Maine.  My image of an Idaho potato is just the Russets, but that may be more out of ignorance (maybe I should look at the bags, next time I’m in the store ;-) than any actual knowledge of what varieties are/were grown in Idaho.

 

RE: National “pools” of cars

Boxcars and flat cars were truly national pools.  There’s  a bunch of instances in ORERs where the B&M was renumbering cars and had pleas to “send our cars home so they can get renumbered”.

Then there’s the saga of flat 33509:

            https://www.bmrrhs.org/s/BMRRM_33509_flatcar.pdf

 

[from the B&M RR Magazine July, 1951 (vol 19 No. 7)]


Ken Akerboom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Different varieties.

On 7/8/2020 11:23 PM, BillM wrote:

FEC shipped potatoes from the 5th district south of Miami and also the Hastings area.

Bill Michael

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Brusgard
Sent: July 8, 2020 7:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Potatoes!!! 



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Another product : wooden kitchen matches. EVERYONE needed them. One of the match makers had
an enormous factory near Duluth-Superior but there must have been others.

There's a lot of pine in New England too - but the really good stuff was removed in colonial days - for ship masts!
The second and third growth forests are mostly for paper and pulp.

Oh, another New England forest product to this day - hardwood FLOORING lumber. Lots of it. Oak. Maple.

And of course - wood furniture.



On 7/8/2020 11:13 PM, Doug Paasch wrote:

Good thought on the lumber.  The PNW is almost all softwood.  Hardwoods would need to come from the east, like maple (duh!), red & white oak, black walnut, etc.  Toothpicks, clothes pins, and textiles (especially woolens) are possibilities.  And manufactured goods, too.

 

Thanks for more ideas.  This is great!

 

  Doug Paasch



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

One more time guys.  Prior to about 1942, there wasn't any such thing as a "free runner"
 
  I would make the same case here:  it is very unlikely that they wandered down the coast having been loaded in Seattle.  That's much more of a 1945+ scenario.

   Not sure where this comes from. The Car Service Rules as we know them were adopted by AAR in 1934, and were described as codifying principles already largely in operation.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

One more time guys.  Prior to about 1942, there wasn't any such thing as a "free runner"

 Then why are the same Car Service Rules in the back of ORER issues prior to 1942?

Tony Thompson