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Pullman Standard cushioned underframe question for PS-1 cars

Brent Greer
 

Friend Jim Brewer recently shared some information on various lots of PS-1 boxcars ordered by the Norfolk and Western.  One of these was for a group of only 5 cars, identified in the data as PS Lot 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned under frames.  The N&W car number series is 53995-53999 and the only information on the diagram is "sliding sill 10" rubber cushion."   My question for the knowledgeable experts in our group is "What type of cushioned under frames were these?"   Did PS have their own proprietary system, or was this something like a Duryea under frame?   And of course, I am interested in how best to model this under frame.


Any and all help appreciated,

Brent 
Tim O'Connor
 


I will guess that it's the same 10" cushioning applied to a tiny number of Western Pacific box cars (e.g. WP 1953).

These really early cushion underframes have not been documented much in the hobby literature. The cars were built
before the SP-SRI "Hydracushion" design, or the Pullman "Hydroframe", or Evans, or other cushioned underframe designs.

I modeled the WP car with an extended coupler pocket. :-)   What else is there to do when there is no drawing?

Tim O'


On 7/7/2020 5:01 PM, Brent Greer wrote:

Friend Jim Brewer recently shared some information on various lots of PS-1 boxcars ordered by the Norfolk and Western.  One of these was for a group of only 5 cars, identified in the data as PS Lot 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned under frames.  The N&W car number series is 53995-53999 and the only information on the diagram is "sliding sill 10" rubber cushion."   My question for the knowledgeable experts in our group is "What type of cushioned under frames were these?"   Did PS have their own proprietary system, or was this something like a Duryea under frame?   And of course, I am interested in how best to model this under frame.


Any and all help appreciated,

Brent


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

n&w_53998 40ft_SD_box B-8a PS1 cushion-uf 1954.jpg

wp_1953 40ft_SD_box PS1-1952 cushion-uf silver-feather orange-paint builder 9-1952.jpg

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jul 7, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Brent Greer <studegator@...> wrote:

Friend Jim Brewer recently shared some information on various lots of PS-1 boxcars ordered by the Norfolk and Western.  One of these was for a group of only 5 cars, identified in the data as PS Lot 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned under frames.  The N&W car number series is 53995-53999 and the only information on the diagram is "sliding sill 10" rubber cushion."   My question for the knowledgeable experts in our group is "What type of cushioned under frames were these?"   Did PS have their own proprietary system, or was this something like a Duryea under frame?   And of course, I am interested in how best to model this under frame.


Brent,
It was a Pullman-Standard proprietary design in which 100 cars were built in 2-54 & sold to 8 different railroads (lots 8160A thru H). A good source is Jim Kinkaid’s article in January 2002 Mainline Modeler. Included is a schematic drawing to illustrate how it functions.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Brent Greer
 

Thanks Ed! (I was afraid that this would end up being something too challenging for me to model - looks like that might be the case here)

I will see if I have the issue of Mainline Modeler in my back issue library collection. 

 Brent
Dr. J. Brent Greer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 5:46 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pullman Standard cushioned underframe question for PS-1 cars
 


On Jul 7, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Brent Greer <studegator@...> wrote:

Friend Jim Brewer recently shared some information on various lots of PS-1 boxcars ordered by the Norfolk and Western.  One of these was for a group of only 5 cars, identified in the data as PS Lot 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned under frames.  The N&W car number series is 53995-53999 and the only information on the diagram is "sliding sill 10" rubber cushion."   My question for the knowledgeable experts in our group is "What type of cushioned under frames were these?"   Did PS have their own proprietary system, or was this something like a Duryea under frame?   And of course, I am interested in how best to model this under frame.


Brent,
It was a Pullman-Standard proprietary design in which 100 cars were built in 2-54 & sold to 8 different railroads (lots 8160A thru H). A good source is Jim Kinkaid’s article in January 2002 Mainline Modeler. Included is a schematic drawing to illustrate how it functions.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
George Eichelberger
 

Although the Southern did not buy any, P-S provided information on their 40’ CUF cars, including the tests using one or two WP cars (the first with CUF?). Their first load was a shipment of boxed wine from CA to the east coast. The P-S/WP report on the trip was very successful with little or no damage to the shipment.

SF-1485 (from P-S dwg 532-F-56-A) dated 4-3-59, shows the CUF underframe arrangement.

Ike

 
George Eichelberger
 

That didn't work, I'll try to upload the drawing here...

Ike

SF-1485 CUF Arrt 40_-6_ car _no cars ordered_ Pt1.jpg

Brent Greer
 

Thanks Ike !

Brent 
Dr. J. Brent Greer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 9:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pullman Standard cushioned underframe question for PS-1 cars
 
That didn't work, I'll try to upload the drawing here...

Ike
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim and Friends,

Actually there were two different underframes applied to WP 1952 and 1953, apparently for evaluation.

I have the general arrangement drawing in the book FREIGHT CAR DIAGRAMS, BOXCAR, WESTERN PACIFIC RAILROAD CO. (a reprint of WP general arrangement drawings published by the Feather River Railroad Museum at Portola many years ago). Just the diagram for 1952 is included. It is a general diagram used also for their 7' PS-1 cars, though the dimensions given are for 1952 which had a 6' door. The length over end sills was 40' 8 1/4". The length over the strikers was 43' 3", giving a 15 3/8" extension of the underframe. No data on the underframe itself is given. This car was initially leased from Pullman, but was purchased by the WP in 1960.

WP 1953 was also leased from Pullman, but was later wrecked (thus it is not in the diagram book cited above). A black-and-white photo is found on page 72 of Patrick C. Dorin's WESTERN PACIFIC LOCOMOTIVES AND CARS [v. 1]. It shows solid orange sides, black lettering, and a silver feather taking up most of the car side to the left of the door. Presumably 1952 used the same paint scheme, and this scheme seems only to have been used for these two cars (a similar scheme with a silver feather all the way across the car was used for a small number of 50' single-door PS-1s, also with cushion underframes).

WP 1952 and 1953 were the only WP 40' PS-1 boxcars with 6' doors. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 5:13 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I will guess that it's the same 10" cushioning applied to a tiny number of Western Pacific box cars (e.g. WP 1953).

These really early cushion underframes have not been documented much in the hobby literature. The cars were built
before the SP-SRI "Hydracushion" design, or the Pullman "Hydroframe", or Evans, or other cushioned underframe designs.

I modeled the WP car with an extended coupler pocket. :-)   What else is there to do when there is no drawing?

Tim O'


On 7/7/2020 5:01 PM, Brent Greer wrote:

Friend Jim Brewer recently shared some information on various lots of PS-1 boxcars ordered by the Norfolk and Western.  One of these was for a group of only 5 cars, identified in the data as PS Lot 8160D  for five cars with the cushioned under frames.  The N&W car number series is 53995-53999 and the only information on the diagram is "sliding sill 10" rubber cushion."   My question for the knowledgeable experts in our group is "What type of cushioned under frames were these?"   Did PS have their own proprietary system, or was this something like a Duryea under frame?   And of course, I am interested in how best to model this under frame.


Any and all help appreciated,

Brent


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:
George Eichelberger
 

Brent:

Thanks for the feedback!

To post or email a drawing, I convert the hi res tiff we make in the scan to a jpg to limit its size. If you cannot read the small dimensions on the jpg version, let me know and I’ll post the full size tiff version where folks can get to it.

Because the Southern was such a big P-S customer, and SRHA has virtually all of the Southern and CofG drawings, on hard copy and microfilm, we have many different freight and passenger car drawings from P-S, ACF, etc. In addition to the drawings, the archives also contain specs, engineering and mech dept files on the cars’ purchased and many (!) builders and in-service photos.

The SRHA archives also contain the ACL/SALHS ACL, SAL, SCL, CRR microfilm. Larry Goolsby obtained the entire CSX microfilm collection several years ago, because of lack of space in their archives at Rockt Mt., NC depot, they reside in the SRHA archives at TVRM in Chattanooga. The PRR, B&O/C&O and L&N decks have been sent to those historical groups.

Ike


On Jul 8, 2020, at 5:29 AM, Brent Greer <studegator@...> wrote:

Thanks Ike !

Brent 
Dr. J. Brent Greer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2020 9:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pullman Standard cushioned underframe question for PS-1 cars
 
That didn't work, I'll try to upload the drawing here...

Ike
Tim O'Connor
 


Thank you Ike! But any chance of seeing a higher resolution drawing? I have the book on 50 foot Southern
box cars but missed out on the 40 foot cars.



On 7/7/2020 9:15 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:

Although the Southern did not buy any, P-S provided information on their 40’ CUF cars, including the tests using one or two WP cars (the first with CUF?). Their first load was a shipment of boxed wine from CA to the east coast. The P-S/WP report on the trip was very successful with little or no damage to the shipment.

SF-1485 (from P-S dwg 532-F-56-A) dated 4-3-59, shows the CUF underframe arrangement.

Ike

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tim O'Connor
 


Aha! Thank you Ike!


On 7/7/2020 9:22 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:

That didn't work, I'll try to upload the drawing here...

Ike


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
George Eichelberger
 

Thanks for getting the SRHA/Southern 50’ box car book! There are less than a dozen left out of 250 or so that were printed for us by the Norfolk Southern print shop at cost. They are available in the SRHA “The Grab” Company Store @ www.srha.net

I’ll finish the second 50’ box car book (1962-82) after I can get the completely redone 40’ box car book done and published. Aside from a lot of new data and photos, all the various Southern 40’ box car rebuilds will be included.

Here, from the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives is the CUF underframe drawing…the tiff file is 8.6MB vs the jpeg @ 2.2MB, I trust you can see and read all of the dimensional data. The correspondence between P-S and the Southern is worth posting when I locate it. One of the two WP cars was “bashed” by a hopper car loaded with sand multiple times to test the cushion hardware. There was some damage done but I believe the test car was repaired and then sold to WP.

The link to Google Drive is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fZqiV6MKvum3kWpZFjVAK77c3aTyrwU8/view?usp=sharing

Don’t rely on the Google Drive viewer, download the file and look at it on your PC.

Ike

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