Coupler Mounting Screws


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

We used to have a lot of surplus places here in Michigan. They mostly started as military surplus dealers after WWII, then switched to industrial surplus. They had lots of hardware, electronics, assorted metals & plastics. One could spend hours wading through these places. All “cash & carry” and mostly in bulk. Their sources for such things slowly dried-up as many industries closed, and interested customers disappeared since nobody wants to really *DO* anything anymore. Same story for the used machinery dealers, especially for small machines. There’s hardly a one left around here anymore.

Even the new material industrial supplies have mostly disappeared. The few left are mostly very expensive, and they often don’t want to deal with small quantity buyers.  They want to sell a few thousand of something, or maybe a couple hundred pounds of it. Same for tools … if you want something better than Harbor Freight you’re out of luck. I’m forced to obtain most of my tools and materials via the internet.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 11, 2020, at 6:44 PM, George Corral <aileron44@...> wrote:

Great place to spend hours noodling around for surplus aircraft grade you name it.  Lived just around the corner.  Haven't been in that store for years.  Was Joe Factors then.  Left over store from aircraft production support businesses for Lockheed and war production.

Luky's Hardware

Another great place was San Fernando Hardware.  Don't know if it still exists.

George Corral


Dennis Storzek
 

If one wants blackened, non-magnetic button head screws, McMaster Carr has them:
https://www.mcmaster.com/97763a314
 
The link should get you on the right page and then search for the desired length from there. Admittedly, 18-8 is not totally non-magnetic, but is much less so than steel.

Dennis Storzek


 

Forgot the photo

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via groups.io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 6:41 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Back in the early 90’s, I went looking at an electronics parts house in Nashville for usable stuff.

 

One bin was 2-56 x ¼” binder head screws. $1.00/pound. I still have a couple of pounds left.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 


 

Back in the early 90’s, I went looking at an electronics parts house in Nashville for usable stuff.

 

One bin was 2-56 x ¼” binder head screws. $1.00/pound. I still have a couple of pounds left.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of John Monrad <jrmonrad@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, July 10, 2020 at 4:36 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 


Dimensions per McMaster-Carr for 2-56 screw heads, 18-8 ss:

Type    Diameter (in)   Height (in)   /100 (1/4in)
Truss       0.194              0.053             $4.96
Binding*  0.181              0.050             $4.69
Pan          0.167              0.063             $4.49

*Slotted only

John Monrad


Bud Rindfleisch
 

Dan,
     Yes, these are blackened steel but in S scale they're just that much higher from the uncoupling magnets than in HO so I haven't seen any issues with that. I'm using the small 1/8" diameter cylindrical magnets that my friend Chuck Davis put me onto, these sit just inside the rails and do tend to pull steel wheels towards them but the coupler screws being farther away have not shown any problems. Am starting to get nickel silver wheels to alleviate the wheel pulling.
    I forgot to mention the screws I bought are self tapping too. Pic attached of the between the rails magnets.
       Bud Rindfleisch


George Corral
 

Great place to spend hours noodling around for surplus aircraft grade you name it.  Lived just around the corner.  Haven't been in that store for years.  Was Joe Factors then.  Left over store from aircraft production support businesses for Lockheed and war production.

Luky's Hardware

Another great place was San Fernando Hardware.  Don't know if it still exists.

George Corral


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hmm, those are pretty cool.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bud Rindfleisch
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

I've found "button head" screws from Micro Fasteners to be very low profile.I bought them in 2-56 and 0-80. They use a small allen wrench of which the size escapes me right now. I like the way they look compared to a phillips cross slot when underbody detailing is important.

     The attached pic is on my S scale scratchbuilt underframe for an LV caboose I'm converting to scale from Am Flyer. I use the 0-80 with the Kadee 802 couplers.

      Bud Rindfleisch


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The Allen “button-head” is typically similar to a Pan-head, but maybe just a tad thinner. One nice thing about them is that they are almost always blackened. They’re also a higher strength screw, but I can’t imagine that being a major factor in model railroading.

The one downside is that they are steel, and thus magnetic. This can cause problems with Kadee-type couplers. An alternative is to get Stainless-steel Allen heads screws ... these are minimally magnetic and have the same profile … they do need to be painted however.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 11, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Bud Rindfleisch <BlackDiamondRR@...> wrote:

I've found "button head" screws from Micro Fasteners to be very low profile.I bought them in 2-56 and 0-80. They use a small allen wrench of which the size escapes me right now. I like the way they look compared to a phillips cross slot when underbody detailing is important.
     The attached pic is on my S scale scratchbuilt underframe for an LV caboose I'm converting to scale from Am Flyer. I use the 0-80 with the Kadee 802 couplers.
      Bud Rindfleisch
<LV AM Flyer caboose project 7-5-15 002.jpg>


Paul Catapano
 

I found a surplus hardware store in Burbank, Ca. (Joe Factor Hardware now Luky’s Hardware) that sold assorted 2-56 screws for $1 a POUND (Know how many 2-56 x 3/16 pan head screws are in a pound? A whole lot!)
I bought every type, version, and length of 2-56 screw they had;
Brass, steel, stainless steel, pan head, counter sunk, round head, etc.
They also had washers for these screws, thin enough to use for minor coupler height adjustment.
Check on line for surplus hardware stores near you, or try screw and bolt suppliers and buy in bulk.
I know McMaster-Carr carries a wide variety.



Paul Catapano
Winchester, Va.


Bud Rindfleisch
 

I've found "button head" screws from Micro Fasteners to be very low profile.I bought them in 2-56 and 0-80. They use a small allen wrench of which the size escapes me right now. I like the way they look compared to a phillips cross slot when underbody detailing is important.
     The attached pic is on my S scale scratchbuilt underframe for an LV caboose I'm converting to scale from Am Flyer. I use the 0-80 with the Kadee 802 couplers.
      Bud Rindfleisch


Douglas Harding
 

Matt you are right. Mine are 4-40, but I have used them to cut brass 2-56 screws.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matt Goodman via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 3:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Interesting. I’ve seen 4-40 shears on wire strippers, but not 2-56. The former works, but requires cleanup. Ironically, my full size strippers will cut down to the 4-40, whereas the smaller strippers that will do 30 gauge wire only goes down to 6’s.

 

Matt Goodman

Columbus, Ohio, US

 

On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:57 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

 

I have an electrician’s wire stripper that also is designed to cut a variety of small screw sizes, including 2-56. Works great on brass screws, gives a nice clean cut, just touch up with a file and I have one any length I want.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Ben,

 

Why I like the Delrin 2-56 screws is I can cut or trim them to the exact length that I want, with ease.  I've done this before and after installation with equal success.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Benjamin Hom [b.hom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

 

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.

 

 

Ben Hom

 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Actually, binder head screws are used in conjunction with binder posts, a T-shaped internally-threaded post which fits in standard punched holes in paper.  The posts and the screws are used to >>bind<< booklets and to get to topic, freight car diagram books.  Having caused the ELHS to republish freight, passenger and locomotive diagram books, I am quite familiar with them.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 4:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

What you illustrate is called a “binder-head” screw. They have the thinnest head among the common screw types. Due to the shallow head few have Phillips or cross-head driving recesses. They were developed to hold wires to terminals, called “binding”. They are commonly found in the electronics industry, especially on barrier-type terminal strips.

 

Slightly thicker and more rounded are “pan-head” screws. The thicker head allows, in addition the common slot, use of Phillips or cross-head driving recesses.

 

Next up in head thickness is the common “round-head” screw where the head is nearly hemispherical.

 

There are many other types. The more common include:

 

“stove-head” screws (sometimes called" truss-head”) that have a larger diameter thin head. The name comes from their original use in assembling sheet metal heating and cooking stoves.

 

“fillister-head” screws (sometimes called “cheese-head”) have a thick cylindrical head, usually with a slightly convex top surface. These are found mostly in machine assembly. Some of the Kadee plastic screws have this head.



Most of the thicker head styles are also available with “Allen” (hex socket) driving recesses, and nowadays “”Torx” or similar star-shaped recesses.



Complicating the issue is that every make uses slightly different shape and proportions, plus many commercial large-scale users specify their own designs.



Dan Mitchell

==========

 



On Jul 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

I keep running into a difficulty of the draft gear box wanting to rotate if the screw isn’t really TIGHT, which can be obviated by making sure there is a continuous contact between the back end of the box and the center sill, or, of course, by some adhesive.  I really prefer the very flat headed screws I mentioned before as it reduces the side profile of the screw head.  They look something like this:

<image003.jpg>

But have an even flatter head

When I got the dozens I have, they were only available with the slotted head.  I see now that there are some which are cross-headed screws.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Hi List Members,

 

It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws

 

Claus Schlunnd

 

----- Original Message ----- 

Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

 

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.

 

 

Ben Hom


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


John Monrad
 


Dimensions per McMaster-Carr for 2-56 screw heads, 18-8 ss:

Type    Diameter (in)   Height (in)   /100 (1/4in)
Truss       0.194              0.053             $4.96
Binding*  0.181              0.050             $4.69
Pan          0.167              0.063             $4.49

*Slotted only

John Monrad


Matt Goodman
 

Interesting. I’ve seen 4-40 shears on wire strippers, but not 2-56. The former works, but requires cleanup. Ironically, my full size strippers will cut down to the 4-40, whereas the smaller strippers that will do 30 gauge wire only goes down to 6’s.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US

On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:57 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

I have an electrician’s wire stripper that also is designed to cut a variety of small screw sizes, including 2-56. Works great on brass screws, gives a nice clean cut, just touch up with a file and I have one any length I want.
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws
 

Ben,

 

Why I like the Delrin 2-56 screws is I can cut or trim them to the exact length that I want, with ease.  I've done this before and after installation with equal success.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Benjamin Hom [b.hom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."
 
Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.
 
 

Ben Hom



Daniel A. Mitchell
 

What you illustrate is called a “binder-head” screw. They have the thinnest head among the common screw types. Due to the shallow head few have Phillips or cross-head driving recesses. They were developed to hold wires to terminals, called “binding”. They are commonly found in the electronics industry, especially on barrier-type terminal strips.

Slightly thicker and more rounded are “pan-head” screws. The thicker head allows, in addition the common slot, use of Phillips or cross-head driving recesses.

Next up in head thickness is the common “round-head” screw where the head is nearly hemispherical.

There are many other types. The more common include:

“stove-head” screws (sometimes called" truss-head”) that have a larger diameter thin head. The name comes from their original use in assembling sheet metal heating and cooking stoves.

“fillister-head” screws (sometimes called “cheese-head”) have a thick cylindrical head, usually with a slightly convex top surface. These are found mostly in machine assembly. Some of the Kadee plastic screws have this head.

Most of the thicker head styles are also available with “Allen” (hex socket) driving recesses, and nowadays “”Torx” or similar star-shaped recesses.

Complicating the issue is that every make uses slightly different shape and proportions, plus many commercial large-scale users specify their own designs.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On Jul 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I keep running into a difficulty of the draft gear box wanting to rotate if the screw isn’t really TIGHT, which can be obviated by making sure there is a continuous contact between the back end of the box and the center sill, or, of course, by some adhesive.  I really prefer the very flat headed screws I mentioned before as it reduces the side profile of the screw head.  They look something like this:
<image003.jpg>
But have an even flatter head
When I got the dozens I have, they were only available with the slotted head.  I see now that there are some which are cross-headed screws.
 
Schuyler
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws
 
Hi List Members,
 
It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws
 
Claus Schlunnd
 
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws
 

I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."
 
Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.
 
 
Ben Hom

-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Schuyler Larrabee
 

I keep running into a difficulty of the draft gear box wanting to rotate if the screw isn’t really TIGHT, which can be obviated by making sure there is a continuous contact between the back end of the box and the center sill, or, of course, by some adhesive.  I really prefer the very flat headed screws I mentioned before as it reduces the side profile of the screw head.  They look something like this:

But have an even flatter head

When I got the dozens I have, they were only available with the slotted head.  I see now that there are some which are cross-headed screws.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Hi List Members,

 

It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws

 

Claus Schlunnd

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Wayne Cohen wrote:
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

 

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.

 

 

Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi List Members,
 
It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws
 
Claus Schlunnd
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Wayne Cohen wrote:
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Wayne Cohen
 

Thank you Tim, and all who responded.

I haven’t snapped heads installing them; rather, they snapped in service.  Still, I think Tim is on to something.  I’ll try the new ones on one or two cars - ensuring they are only snug rather than tight - and see how they do.

The latest iteration of the Kadee has a nice appearance: slightly flatter and wider head, and matte finish as compared to the shiny old ones. Rarely any need to paint them either, of course.


Tim O’Connor wrote:
I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.
--
Wayne Cohen


Tim O'Connor
 


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Wayne Cohen wrote:
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Nelson Moyer
 

I used the Kadee plastic screws when I first started building resin kits, and two negatives soon appeared. The first problem was that occasionally a screw would freeze and trying to remove it would strip the head, which required drilling a new hole, filling it with styrene and starting over. The second problem is that the Phillips head on the Kadee screws is large, requiring a #1 Phillips screwdriver instead of the #0 screwdriver I use for metal screws. That can be a problem in tight clearance situations. It’s really quite easy to strip the plastic head, as it’s not deep enough to properly engage the screwdriver tip. I use 1-56 pan Phillips metal machine screws from FMW Fasteners in  ¼ in., 3/16 in., and 5/32 in. lengths. I ordered 500 each online, and they should last a lifetime. These screws have a deep Philips head that perfectly fits a #0 screwdriver, and I’ve ever had one fail.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 6:39 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Tony,

 

That is how you cut longer bolts and treaded rod in the real world.  Always works.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Mont Switzer wrote:

 

Why I like the Delrin 2-56 screws is I can cut or trim them to the exact length that I want, with ease.  I've done this before and after installation with equal success.

 

      Works equally well with brass screws, Mont. Just turn a nut onto the screw above the cut, make the cut, then turn the nut back off, cleans up the thread, then file if needed. Almost as quick as with plastic.

 

Tony Thompson