yep

On 2/14/2023 6:39 AM, al_brown03 wrote:

It occurs to me Seaboard class AF had flat ends and double doors; they were 50' cars.

AL B.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

John

Having a 4/5 dreadnaught end does not make a car into a 1937 AAR box car, like the AF-3. I think that
end just happened to be available off the shelf when SAL was doing the rebuilds. Many others cars received
4/5 ends such as the SP A-50-12 and A-50-13 (both classes 10-4 IH)

At least some A* series had a different roof and as you noted they were rebuilds. I don't understand how to
conflate the two designs of cars although there is a superficial resemblance.

Here is Tom Christensen's model of SAL 9058 from Cocoa Beach 2011.


On 2/6/2023 3:23 PM, golden1014 via groups.io wrote:

HI Tim, and David,

I agree that the A-1 and the AF-3 look different, except in this instance. 

The first group of SAL cars in the 9000-9060 series has always been a little bit of a mystery.  That first group, according to SAL rosters, was the "A class", series 9001-9010.  They were "dimensionally similar" to the A-1s.

Take a quick look at the attached.  Attached is SAL 9006 from the A series (9001-9010), but note it's labeled at A1 (no dash).  David Thompson wrote this car is "along the lines of a 1932 car".  He's not wrong, but in my opinion I'd say it is technically a 1937 ARA car (4-5 ends, 10-2 IH)...except that it was built by SAL in 1936. 

Also note unlike any 1937 car, SAL 9006 has a heavy fishbelly centersill underframe, which indicates to me it was rebuilt on one of the old G-6/7/8 composite gondola frames...even though the SAL books don't annotate that.

 

So is the 9001-9010 and A or an A1?  Geez, SAL books say it's an A, the car says A1.  Bill McCoy told me once that the car shop guys "drank their lunch" so who the heck knows what they called it.  I can report that the '57 and '67 rosters have the 9001-9010 and 9011-9060 series car listed separately.  Only one left in revenue service in '67 if anybody cares.

Compare the photo of 9006 with the one you sent, SAL 22449, which is a 1945-built AF-3.  In my opinion they are VERY similar: 4-5 ends, same panel config, tabbed sills, Youngstown doors, 10-0 IH (close to 10-2 on the 9006).  The 9006 is just a little bit different with eight-rung ladders, the O-B-S slogan, and the fishbelly underframe.  I don't know what kind of roof--I **think** it is Hutchins.  In my view, at first glance they are practically the same car.



So here's the interesting part--and why all this matters to rivet counters like us.  The LATER series of SAL pre-war, home-made, auto car rebuilds, SAL 9011 to 9060, built in 1936 and 1937, looked quite different, having been built on top of the actual gondola frames.  SAL does note the 9011-9060 were built on gon frames.  Attached is SAL 9058.  Same carbody but it is almost a step backwards.  Like 9006 it is marked A1 but the extended bottom sill and underframe make it look very different from the 9006 A car (or is it an A-1???).  No tabs like the earlier 9001-9010 either.  Definitely a Hutchins roof (unlike the AF-3).



Sorry to drag this out but it's all quite interesting to me.  It is totally understandable knowing how the railroads rebuilt cars in those days--one step forward, two steps sideways.

John Golden

Attachments:

• 032350.jpg
• sal_22449 40ft_DD_box AF-3 PS-1942 1937-AAR builder shopdate 8-45.jpg
• SAL9058 - Copy.jpg

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Hi Fenton,

Sure is.

Best,

AL B.

I've posted a photo to the album "Al Brown's Cars" of a model of this car. It uses a Red Caboose shell; Accurail fishbellies; Athearn bolsters; Westerfield roof frame; home-cast doors; styrene underframe crossties and roof; Tichy brake gear and bracket grans; A-line sill steps; Des Plaines 8-rung ladders; Tahoe 40-ton trucks; and wire cut levers, brake rods, and piping. 
Scalecoat II BCR paint; Speedwitch, Tichy, and Champ decals; Sunshine chalk marks; Microscale striping; weathered with Pan Pastels and powders.

The only photo I've seen of this class is the one from the West Virginia University collection, posted by Bob Chaparro in this thread. I looked at this photo and thought the bolster-to-striker distance was 5'6"; group members Bruce Smith and Tony Thompson looked at the same photo and thought this dimension was 5'0", and they may be right! I'd love to see either a straight-on side view or a diagram of this car.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.