Topics

Ship anchors?


Charles
 
Edited

Here's a source for model anchors like the one shown in post 176991: https://floatingdrydock.com/JH-B6.jpg . It's a 30,000 lb. in 1/96 scale -- probable "too much" for N scale but suitable as a lighter weight one in HO. The vendor has a lot of neat ship model parts that are applicable to model railroad freight cars such as fine chain and other parts that could be used as loads. The website is a little difficult to navigate (pun intended) but this would be a good port to set sail (I'll be here all week, be sure to tell your friends) from: https://floatingdrydock.com/ -- scroll down to the bottom of the page.


Donald B. Valentine
 

    Unless a kedge anchor was so large that it might overhang the sides of a flat car and thus become a special move as a wide load why would they be shipped on a flat car instead of in a gondola in which

It would seem would require a lot less time and expense for blocking? Don’t know, just asking as it

doesn’t seem to make sense.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Jim Betz
 

Claus,

  The type of anchors you have are the kind used for sailing vessels and early steam
powered ships and would be unlikely on anything diesel.  And very unlikely on any
"large, modern -ship- such as a naval vessel.  Also relatively unlikely on smaller 
craft such as fishing vessels (except for sailing).  Those are what I'd call "medium
duty" rather than heavy duty.  The kind others pointed to with the pivoting stock are
available in sizes from about 3 pounds and on up to modern naval vessels.  The
type you have - with a fixed stock - I've never seen in use or for sale ... mostly I've
seen them with sailing ships at museums.  But they would have been in common
use in the 20's.
 
  I think you may have 'missed the point'.  In 1929 a lot of shipping was still done by
sail.  So anchors of the type you have were still in use and still being made and
shipped even though it was an "old" design at the time of your RR.
  
  Having said the above - I've never seen a picture of anchors of your style on/in a rail car
of any type (flat or box car).  I'm not saying they weren't shipped by rail - I'm just saying I
don't remember ever seeing a picture of one/several on a rail car.  
  If you do decide to use them they would go to a ship chandler or naval facility near the
waterfront - probably even to one that has a dock.  They would be shipped from a 'mill'
or other such business capable of casting large heavy stuff.
  Anchors are heavy and need some serious weight handling equpment to move them
around.  Once on the ship they are hauled up and down by use of a winch with serious
lifting power.  Anchors -do- get lost (left on the sea floor) from time to time so ships
would, infrequently, need to replace them.  Changing to a different style of anchor for
an existing ship would not be likely - the movable stock style normally are stowed in
the anchor chain/hawser hole and the fixed stock style are 'hung near that same
hole' ... quite different methods.
                                                                                                                    - Jim


Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Aug 21, 2020, at 18:22, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Nolan, Ed, Rob, and List members,

Thanks Nolan for the info on the Balclutha. Having lived in San Francisco for 32 years, I have visited the Balclutha many times, it was always a great pleasure to do so.

And thanks everyone, seems like the overall opinion is that these anchors model a type that would pre-date my chosen 1929 modeling era.
Balclutha's last commercial voyage was in 1941, with the usual anchors, as the naval style still wouldn't cat up correctly.
[prototype for everything, yaddida yaddida ...]


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Nolan, Ed, Rob, and List members,
 
Thanks Nolan for the info on the Balclutha. Having lived in San Francisco for 32 years, I have visited the Balclutha many times, it was always a great pleasure to do so.
 
And thanks everyone, seems like the overall opinion is that these anchors model a type that would pre-date my chosen 1929 modeling era.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?

On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:

[...]

> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking.  The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.

[alert: era-dependencies at work]

There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]

[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.

[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>



Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Nolan, Ed, Rob, and List members,
 
Thanks Nolan for the info on the Balclutha. Having lived in San Francisco for 32 years, I have visited the Balclutha many times, it was always a great pleasure to do so.
 
And thanks everyone, seems like the overall opinion is that these anchors model a type that would pre-date my chosen 1929 modeling era.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?

On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:

[...]

> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking.  The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.

[alert: era-dependencies at work]

There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]

[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.

[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>



Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Nolan, Ed, Rob, and List members,
 
Thanks Nolan for the info on the Balclutha. Having lived in San Francisco for 32 years, I have visited the Balclutha many times, it was always a great pleasure to do so.
 
And thanks everyone, seems like the overall opinion is that these anchors model a type that would pre-date my chosen 1929 modeling era.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2020 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ship anchors?

On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:

[...]

> Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking.  The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.

[alert: era-dependencies at work]

There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]

[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.

[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>



Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <@bny1889> wrote:

[...]

Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking. The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.
[alert: era-dependencies at work]

There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]

[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.

[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>


Robert kirkham
 

Not an area I am expert on, but have spent a fair amount of time looking at models of anchors.   For ship building, I would think most anchors were made near the shipyard, moved aboard the ship and spent their life at sea.  So if you model trackage from the anchor maker to the shipyard, OK I guess.  But I imagine most makers were at water’s edge and movement was direct from the site to the ship, or by barge from the site to the shipyard.  

For an anchor of that design, you’re looking at quite the anomaly at that size.  I think it is a larger scale model.  If it was smaller, then I could see such an anchor as part of merchandise shipped from here to there for smaller vessels.  https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/3274142/STEVSHARK/Vryhof_Anhor_History.pdf?t=1493214503869 this page has a history of designs.  Not an expert as I say, but those models look very old.


Rob Kirkham   

On Aug 21, 2020, at 7:49 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I was sorting thru a box of junk I didn't even know I had, and I found these small ship anchors - see attached image. In my chosen scale (N) these are about 9 feet in length as can be seen on the scale ruler. Doing a quick internet search on "ship anchor dimensions" confirms that anchors of this size do (and did) indeed exist.
 
I assume ship anchors were shipped in steam era freight cars? I ask because I have not yet ever seen a photo of such a shipment.
 
Would they be shipped on flat cars? In gondolas? Would they have simply been tied down, or would they have been blocked in some way to keep them from shifting around during transit?
 
Any thoughts? Conjectures? Factual information? All are welcome.
 
Claus Schlund
 
<20200821_103337.jpg>


Edward
 
Edited

The anchors you show are what's called a kedge anchor, with a top crossbar that can be permanent, or able to be folded down along the shank for easier storage.
It is a late 18th century design, sill made, but now for small craft. 

Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking.  The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it. 

Ed Bommer


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I was sorting thru a box of junk I didn't even know I had, and I found these small ship anchors - see attached image. In my chosen scale (N) these are about 9 feet in length as can be seen on the scale ruler. Doing a quick internet search on "ship anchor dimensions" confirms that anchors of this size do (and did) indeed exist.
 
I assume ship anchors were shipped in steam era freight cars? I ask because I have not yet ever seen a photo of such a shipment.
 
Would they be shipped on flat cars? In gondolas? Would they have simply been tied down, or would they have been blocked in some way to keep them from shifting around during transit?
 
Any thoughts? Conjectures? Factual information? All are welcome.
 
Claus Schlund