B&O underframes


lrkdbn
 

Dear group
In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age"
trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design?I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy
X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)
Thanks for any help you can give
Larry King


Eric Hansmann
 

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?

 

The few images of pre-USRA B&O reefers that I’ve seen have been truss rod cars with a straight steel center sill. The M-15 boxcars had a fish belly center sill and no truss rods.

 

The M-18 boxcar class was similar to the M-15 car design but had truss rods and a steel center sill. About 3000 M-18 cars were put into service in 1916. These are low numbers in comparison to the M-15 cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lrkdbn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes

 

Dear group
In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age"
trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design?I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy
X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)
Thanks for any help you can give
Larry King


David
 

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?
Railway Age Volume 63, p.981. The underframe drawing is on p.982. Series was apparently B&O 15000-15499, class R7, leased to FGE around 1925.

David Thompson


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Eric,


Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 8:08 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?

 

The few images of pre-USRA B&O reefers that I’ve seen have been truss rod cars with a straight steel center sill. The M-15 boxcars had a fish belly center sill and no truss rods.

 

The M-18 boxcar class was similar to the M-15 car design but had truss rods and a steel center sill. About 3000 M-18 cars were put into service in 1916. These are low numbers in comparison to the M-15 cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lrkdbn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes

 

Dear group
In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age"
trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design?I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy
X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)
Thanks for any help you can give
Larry King


Eric Hansmann
 

Thank you, Garth! The following article is also of interest for me.

 

 

>>> Larry King asked: In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age" trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design? I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)  <<<

 

After reviewing the article and checking several resources, I cannot confirm the underframe featured in the RA article is the same as the B&O M-15 underframes. There are similarities. I do not know of any B&O documentation indicating a common underframe for 40-foot house cars.

 

After the M-15 cars, the M-18 (steel center sill and truss rods) were the only other 40-foot boxcar class added to the B&O before the USRA car assignments in 1919 with 500 M-24 class cars. The M-26 steel-sheathed cars began expanding the B&O fleet in 1925. There aren’t any common underframe designs to these four B&O boxcar classes.

 

The B&O reefers were in the R7 class and number series 15000-15500 with 501 cars listed in the 1917 ORER. These were the only B&O reefers noted with steel underframes in the 1917 ORER listings. The May 1925 ORER lists 477 cars in this number series.

 

FYI, the October 1926 ORER B&O entry lists ZERO reefers. As they B&O joined the Fruit Growers consortium in 1925, their reefer fleet became part of the FGE fleet. Under Miscellaneous Equipment, 115 Ice Box cars are listed for company use. I suspect these were older cars.

 

The B&O did roster stock cars but most were leased from the Mather Company.

 

While I do not have a definitive answer to the original question Larry King posted, it would seem like the B&O did not use a common house car underframe design.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 4:45 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes

 

Eric,

 

 

Yours Aye,

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks, David!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 7:33 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?
Railway Age Volume 63, p.981. The underframe drawing is on p.982. Series was apparently B&O 15000-15499, class R7, leased to FGE around 1925.

David Thompson


ROGER HINMAN
 

I have a copy of Standard Steel drawing 38048 (which is available at the IRM) for a 1916 order of M15 boxcars. I compared this with the drawing referenced in RWA. The underarms are very similar, but not identical. Truck Spacing and cross member spacings are different.

Roger Hinman

On Nov 9, 2020, at 8:08 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?
 
The few images of pre-USRA B&O reefers that I’ve seen have been truss rod cars with a straight steel center sill. The M-15 boxcars had a fish belly center sill and no truss rods. 
 
The M-18 boxcar class was similar to the M-15 car design but had truss rods and a steel center sill. About 3000 M-18 cars were put into service in 1916. These are low numbers in comparison to the M-15 cars.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lrkdbn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes
 
Dear group
In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age"
trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design?I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy
X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)
Thanks for any help you can give
Larry King