Topics

[Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California


Bill Parks
 

My guess is the two pictures of tires being unloaded for tires shops were taken at team tracks.  I now have another reason to spot a box car there
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Tim O'Connor
 


I think WHITE WALL tires were wrapped - Nobody would buy a blemished white wall, except at a deep discount.



On 11/17/2020 12:50 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Attached are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar was suitable.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Garth;

 

I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this.  The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this).  So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Jim,

 

Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆 

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Elden,

 

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


David Soderblom
 

But in both photos shown the tires are going to tire dealers, *not* to factories for installing on new cars.  The Spokane photo shows a fair assortment of tire treads and such.




David Soderblom
Baltimore MD




--
David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
david.soderblom@...


Douglas Harding
 

Attached are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar was suitable.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Garth;

 

I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this.  The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this).  So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Jim,

 

Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆 

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Elden,

 

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Garth;

 

I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this.  The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this).  So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Jim,

 

Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆 

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Elden,

 

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Jim,

Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆 


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Elden,

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Jim Gates
 

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Elden,

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Elden,

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson