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My guess is the two pictures of tires being unloaded for tires shops were taken at team tracks. I now have another reason to spot a box car there
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
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Tim O'Connor
I think WHITE WALL tires were wrapped - Nobody would buy a
blemished white wall, except at a deep discount.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 11/17/2020 12:50 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:
Attached
are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on
the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar
was suitable.
Garth;
I
agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this,
but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did
this. The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in
dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has
much angry correspondence on this). So, I think tire
shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from,
since those cars could be used for anything.
Elden
Gatwood
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool
Service into California
Jim,
Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and
I expect there were pools between major tire makers
and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time
deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have
others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour
searching the web for this and found nothing, which
is typical of the web.
I believe tires used to come individually
wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage
as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably
clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.
Jim Gates
On Monday, November 16, 2020,
02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
<mallardlodge1000@...>
wrote:
Elden,
I second your comments on the
complexity of pools. And when it comes
to sub-assemblies, one also should
consider that some parts were made by
contractors. For instance,
American Metal Products supplied seat
frames and springs to a number of
manufacturers. We usually think only of
the Big Three manufacturers today, but
Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate,
Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and
others were still in the game into the
1950s, and these smaller marques likely
used many more sourced products than
Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember,
every car made in the US came with five
tires, and AFAIK, none of auto
manufacturers were making their own
tires (though Ford had tried). There
must also have been pools from the tire
manufacturers to auto assembly plants.
Fred;
Unfortunately,
not yet. I know a guy that has been
working on this for 30+ years with
the intention of doing a book(s),
but he is overwhelmed with data.
Every RR
did their own version of how they
handled it, and I am personally
overwhelmed with just the PRR part
of this, in the moment.
In
addition, the pools changed almost
yearly, with new models, changed
models, and the whims of the auto
makers. I can attest to the
numerous code changes, stencil
changes, rack changes, and classes
in use, from what I’ve dug up.
For your
edification, you may want to look up
the various auto and parts plants
on-line, to see the enormous number
of same in play over the years.
Elden
Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf
Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13,
2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source]
[RealSTMFC] Pool Service into
California
Many cars
serving the auto industry were in
pool service. Are there listings or
other information on what lines to
and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
Attachments:
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
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But in both photos shown the tires are going to tire dealers, *not* to factories for installing on new cars. The Spokane photo shows a fair assortment of tire treads and such.
David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
-- David Soderblom Baltimore MD david.soderblom@...
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Douglas Harding
Attached are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar was suitable. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:43 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California Garth; I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this. The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this). So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything. Elden Gatwood From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California Jim, Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web. I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.
Jim Gates On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Elden, I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants. Fred; Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment. In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up. For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years. Elden Gatwood From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
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|
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Garth;
I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this. The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has
much angry correspondence on this). So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California
Jim,
Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It
would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.
I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.
Jim Gates
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
wrote:
Elden,
I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For
instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still
in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford
had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.
Fred;
Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data.
Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.
In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes,
rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.
For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.
Elden Gatwood
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of
Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California
Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
|
|
|
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Jim,
Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.
Jim Gates
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford < mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Elden,
I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff Fred; Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment. In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up. For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years. Elden Gatwood From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
|
|
|
I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.
Jim Gates
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Elden,
I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff Fred; Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment. In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up. For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years. Elden Gatwood From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
|
|
|
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Elden,
I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff
Fred;
Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data.
Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.
In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.
For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California
Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
|
|
|
Fred;
Unfortunately, not yet. I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data.
Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.
In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers. I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.
For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California
Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service. Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson
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