Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)


Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)

Photos from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285352

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285353

These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Steve Summers
 

The tanks are US M3 Lee tanks.  They were built late 1941 to the end of 1942.  They began to be replaced by the better M4 Sherman tanks (a lot were sold to the British). The Lee was not a very good tank but that’s beyond the scope of this group, but it gives a time frame, late 1941- 1943, that they would have been expected to be shipping on a flat car.


On Nov 16, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:



Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)

Photos from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285352

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285353

These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

Am I seeing a distinct dip in the BAR flat car with the tank?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:58 PM Steve Summers via groups.io <summers1218=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
The tanks are US M3 Lee tanks.  They were built late 1941 to the end of 1942.  They began to be replaced by the better M4 Sherman tanks (a lot were sold to the British). The Lee was not a very good tank but that’s beyond the scope of this group, but it gives a time frame, late 1941- 1943, that they would have been expected to be shipping on a flat car.


On Nov 16, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:



Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)

Photos from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285352

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3285353

These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Bruce Smith
 

Garth, Folks,

This set of photos is a companion to a set of photos of NC&St.L FM-7 #70035 with a similar load. We discussed BOTH loads back in April of 2017. This appears to have been a load test with full rigged M3A1 tanks and as I said then "of which 300 were produced by the American Locomotive Company between February and August 1942.  272 were powered by Wright radial aircraft engines, while 28 were powered by Gurberson T-1400-2 diesels.”


The M3A1 variants on both can be recognized as early to mid production by the presence of the side doors with pistol ports. The M3A1 on the BAR car being a slightly later variant than those on the NC&St.L car as shown by the counterweight noted by Elden. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

Friends,

Am I seeing a distinct dip in the BAR flat car with the tank?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:58 PM Steve Summers via groups.io <summers1218=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
The tanks are US M3 Lee tanks.  They were built late 1941 to the end of 1942.  They began to be replaced by the better M4 Sherman tanks (a lot were sold to the British). The Lee was not a very good tank but that’s beyond the scope of this group, but it gives a time frame, late 1941- 1943, that they would have been expected to be shipping on a flat car.


On Nov 16, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:


Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)
Photos from the National Archives of Canada:
These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

You can broaden that shipping time frame a bit. M3 tanks were used for training in several locations around the United States. In addition, some M3 Lees were rebuilt into other types of vehicle, for example M31 tank recovery vehicles, so traffic in M3s continued well beyond the end of production and to a more limited extent could probably be seen through the end of the war. I do plan to have a couple M3s being shipped to Baldwin Locomotive works for conversion to M31s.

The common M3 variant sold to the British was the Grant, which had a different turret with no commanders cupola and a bigger bustle (for the radio) although the brits did also get some Lees. The Soviets also received M3 Lees via lend lease, both by Atlantic and Pacific routes. 

All of which make excellent flat car loads. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 16, 2020, at 11:58 AM, Steve Summers via groups.io <summers1218@...> wrote:

The tanks are US M3 Lee tanks.  They were built late 1941 to the end of 1942.  They began to be replaced by the better M4 Sherman tanks (a lot were sold to the British). The Lee was not a very good tank but that’s beyond the scope of this group, but it gives a time frame, late 1941- 1943, that they would have been expected to be shipping on a flat car.


On Nov 16, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)
Photos from the National Archives of Canada:
These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Am I all wet or is there a cable running beneath the deck of this BAR flat from mounts just beyond the outer side 
of the last stake pocket on each side, perhaps to indicate how depressed the deck is from the weight of the tank?
I noticed this in the second photo but went back and noted that it appears in the first photo as well but is not as
obvious until it is enlarged. Can't imagine what this is for other than to keep an eye on how much the deck is
depressed.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    The photo of the NC&StL flat car with two lee tanks is helpful Bruce. Note that it too has a cable along the side between the inner piece of the stirrup steps on each end. Thus I believe you are correct about both this and the two BAR car photos are
of test loads with the purpose of the cable, as I suggested, being to help note the amo9unt of depression in the decks of the 
cars, perhaps to see how much it might have change between points "A" and "B".

    Were any of the Lee tanks used to equip National Guard units?

My best, Don Valentine


Bruce Smith
 

Don,

With respect to M3 Lees and National Guard units, a qualified yes, but only in the context of early to mid 1942, and activated Guard units. Post war, the surplus of M4 Shermans meant that the M3s were scrapped. We did not send them to any foreign countries post-war. During the war, following the establishment of training facilities and the supply depot systems circa late 1942, the remaining domestic M3 tanks were assigned to training facilities, not units. Any rail movement of these tanks after about mid 1942 would be to training centers, both domestic and overseas, to Allies through lend-lease, to remanufacturing facilities for conversion to M31 and M33, and post war, to scrap yards and a few to museums.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 5:25 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Bangor & Aroostook Flat Car 71710 With Army Tanks (Undated)
 
    The photo of the NC&StL flat car with two lee tanks is helpful Bruce. Note that it too has a cable along the side between the inner piece of the stirrup steps on each end. Thus I believe you are correct about both this and the two BAR car photos are
of test loads with the purpose of the cable, as I suggested, being to help note the amo9unt of depression in the decks of the 
cars, perhaps to see how much it might have change between points "A" and "B".

    Were any of the Lee tanks used to equip National Guard units?

My best, Don Valentine


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Don,

I remember seeing a reader-submitted photo in a TRAINS issue from around 1952 that showed one of these tanks being loaded or unloaded from a flat car by a National Guard Unit. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 12:18 PM Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
    The photo of the NC&StL flat car with two lee tanks is helpful Bruce. Note that it too has a cable along the side between the inner piece of the stirrup steps on each end. Thus I believe you are correct about both this and the two BAR car photos are
of test loads with the purpose of the cable, as I suggested, being to help note the amo9unt of depression in the decks of the 
cars, perhaps to see how much it might have change between points "A" and "B".

    Were any of the Lee tanks used to equip National Guard units?

My best, Don Valentine