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Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Schuyler,

    Its a great example of why the Fowler Patent used on the first 9,000 or so Dominion Cars fell from favor so fast.
If the car builder used good seasoned and kiln dried lumber for sheathing and then properly painted it there was very 
little shrinkage making some cars, like this No. Pac. car, look as though they might have steel sheathing when they 
didn't. I'll never understand how the Fowler Patent got as far as it did unless some railroad purchasing agent bought 
into the idea without checking with anyone in his own car shop. Anyone who had worked for any length of time with 
wood would have known better. 

My best, Don Valentine
np328
 

Schuyler writes regarding oversize gaps on modeled cars: Are we only talking to ourselves here? 
      I think that it is very possible that we are. And then there could be the same who feel that even this conversation is - nuts! - to lean upon researchers "bell curve"    https://www.simplypsychology.org/normal-distribution.html 

The NP 6000-6999 series cars built by General American Car Company in 1923 were the NP's desire to get a larger share than they had of the automobile market. I have written prior that when the NP had Detroit area traffic agents made inquiries on how the NP might get more traffic, they found that they needed to have empty cars at the ready locally to the auto plants.  GACC was approached and asked if the NP could have cars delivered ASAP and GACC stated that they currently had jigs in place for SP cars of generally the same design and would the NP accept SP clones? Though the NP and SP were on quite amicable terms with (with the President of the NP often spending lengthy holiday visits with the SP President) the NP Mechanical department wanted a more substantial floor which had letters back and forth to the point GACC stated that a decision had to be made or else the NP could go back to the end of the order line which was 9 months at best, more likely a year. 
       About 10 years or so after they were built, some of the cars (500) of the then 998 cars were rebuilt into the 30000 series with single six foot door instead of the original door and a half six and three foot doors.  Many of these cars soldiered on well through this lists end date BTW as appliance cars, grain cars, general service going all over.  
   
     I had a conversation with a resin caster while turning over a mailing tube of plans on the 6000/30000 series NP cars about 6-10 years ago at CCB and made sure to mention my concerns about "oversized gaps or overly distressed and warped boards".  Something, after decades of reading letters of the Mechanical department and elsewhere, that stated the NP wood sheathed cars were generally maintained in better shape than the industry as a whole and I relayed that to this person. 
      While a completely cordial conversation, the reply as I recall had something to do with the total market in that there were sales to the toy train modeling aspect (my words, not his) and that this part of his sales which (paraphrasing his words) were people whom he doubted would ever assemble his kits however were fascinated by how the model looked in their display. And to these people - seeing oversize gaps and deep graining was actually part of the appeal.  He gave me what he felt was an estimate of this group of his sales and said (paraphrasing again) as long as they put bread on his plate he was not going to go out of his way offend them. I'll go on to say that I think the person and the company are very good folks and have added many, many, good models to our model railroad realm.    

     The corollary is of course that folks who desire greater fidelity are in part, held captive by these people however well meaning, do not care, none the less make purchases in the margins.   
And of course higher fidelity has lead to some price increases - which to me only makes sense.
Quality invariably costs more, I accept that.
However in this list can be found opinions of those who feel otherwise regarding cost increases.                                                                               Jim Dick - Roseville, MN  

 

 
Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yeah, that car too . . .

 

And that after this list’s members have discussed and discussed and plain ol’ cussed the oversize gaps in most DS wood car sides.  Are we only talking to ourselves here?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

And not just single sheathed cars. Compare the HO and real close ups of DS cars from my attachments.

 

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 

On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 10:26:54 AM PST, Claus Schlund \ > wrote:

 

 

Hi Schuyler and List members,

 

Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?

 

Claus Schlund

 

 
Schuyler Larrabee
 

Something I’ve thought for a long time.  I mean, the Accurail car with the extreme wood grain is great, but also so identifiable as “another one of those models,” as to be boring after a while (Sorry, Dennis).

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Hi Schuyler and List members,

 

Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:24 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Better than that, I saved a copy of the expanded image and zoomed in on that.  I >CAN< see some indication of joints but it simply was not “for sure” for me.

 

Thanks to the respondents for the clarity.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Did you click on the expand icon before zooming?  When I do that I can see the cracks between the individual boards.  Here’s a snippet:

 

Rob 

 

On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 
Andy Carlson
 

And not just single sheathed cars. Compare the HO and real close ups of DS cars from my attachments.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 10:26:54 AM PST, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi Schuyler and List members,
 
Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?
 
Claus Schlund
 
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Schuyler and List members,
 
Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

Better than that, I saved a copy of the expanded image and zoomed in on that.  I >CAN< see some indication of joints but it simply was not “for sure” for me.

 

Thanks to the respondents for the clarity.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Did you click on the expand icon before zooming?  When I do that I can see the cracks between the individual boards.  Here’s a snippet:

 

Rob 

 

On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 
Andy Carlson
 

It is a wood sided car. Like a good quality house floor, the well-milled wood sheathing slats are tight fitting. In the years to come, the weaker flat-grained boards will come to light highlighting individual boards before the gaps increase, which in modeling we over exaggerate all the time.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 10:12:26 AM PST, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 


Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/57922/rec/104

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.
Schuyler Larrabee
 

Better than that, I saved a copy of the expanded image and zoomed in on that.  I >CAN< see some indication of joints but it simply was not “for sure” for me.

 

Thanks to the respondents for the clarity.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Did you click on the expand icon before zooming?  When I do that I can see the cracks between the individual boards.  Here’s a snippet:

 

Rob 

 

On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 
Robert kirkham
 

Did you click on the expand icon before zooming?  When I do that I can see the cracks between the individual boards.  Here’s a snippet:

Rob 

On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?
 
The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.
 
Schuyler
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)
 
Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)
A photo from the Denver Public Library:
Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.
Car built in 1923.
The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.
Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck. 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Paul Doggett
 

Schuyler 

It looks to have a replacement plank at the bottom.


Paul Doggett 


On 21 Nov 2020, at 18:12, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/57922/rec/104

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Schuyler Larrabee
 

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/57922/rec/104

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/57922/rec/104

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
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