HO Tank Car Lid


Allen Cain
 

The picture of the Warren Tank Car being filled inspired me to model a car being filled.

Does anyone offer an HO tank car top with a lid that opens to model a car being filled?  Probably not using the right terms but you get my meaning I hope.

Would be interested in one for either gas, oil, propane or acid tank cars.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Todd Sullivan
 

Allen,

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

Todd Sullivan.


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Inside the hinged top are the control valves for loading and unloading.  The hose connections enter that casing through holes in the side of the casing to connect with the valves there.  Note that there are two connections required to properly empty the car.  See this interesting photo

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Lid

 

The picture of the Warren Tank Car being filled inspired me to model a car being filled.

Does anyone offer an HO tank car top with a lid that opens to model a car being filled?  Probably not using the right terms but you get my meaning I hope.

Would be interested in one for either gas, oil, propane or acid tank cars.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Charles Peck
 

One might keep in mind that many products would never have the manway 
hatch opened except for cleaning.  Most liquid products can be loaded and unloaded
through pipes and hoses attached to access valves. An open hatchway is 
a potential source of contamination.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:39 AM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Allen,

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

Todd Sullivan.


Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan wrote:

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

  Better try and use the Atlas over. I don't think you can mix the two. The Athearn one is considerably oversize, while the Atlas valve bonnet is scale size.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

Charles Peck wrote:

One might keep in mind that many products would never have the manway 
hatch opened except for cleaning.  Most liquid products can be loaded and unloaded
through pipes and hoses attached to access valves. An open hatchway is 
a potential source of contamination.

   It's not a manway on a pressure car. The cover is opened for access to the valves and hose connections.
    But on non-pressure cars, the manway cover IS opened for loading, and opened for unloading to access the valve wheel, or for top unloading.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

     If you're interested in the loading or unloading process for high-pressure tank cars, I have written a blog post about that, including a bunch of prototype photos. If you're interested, the link is below.


Tony Thompson




Jeff Coleman
 

Tony
Excellent blog on pressure cars. Only thing I'd add is the valve arrangement varies per commodity. 

Jeff Coleman

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:39 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
     If you're interested in the loading or unloading process for high-pressure tank cars, I have written a blog post about that, including a bunch of prototype photos. If you're interested, the link is below.


Tony Thompson




Todd Sullivan
 

Chuck,

True for most kind of tank cars and cargoes, but not true for pressure tank cars and acid tank cars.  They all required top unloading.  For LPG, Ammonia, Chlorine, because they were gasses shipped in liquid form under pressure, so the easy way to unload is to attach hoses to fittings in the dome/manway.  For acids, the tanks did not have bottom outlets to prevent leaks and damage to the outlets.  Think of cleaning up a derailment with super sulfuric or phosphoric acid gushing from a broken fitting.

Todd Sullivan


Allen Cain
 

Having worked unloading coal tar pitch tank cars I recall having to open the vent valve in the dome or else the car could literally collapse as the pitch was drained out of the bottom fitting, if it would flow at all.

Draining the car increases the "air" pocket volumn above the fluid creating a vacuum that increases as the liquid level drops putting stress on the car.

PV=nRT

As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

In the case of a pressured gas car, the risk of the positive pressure dropping into the negative range is low as the tank was pressurized prior to unloading.

Yes, I am a nerd.

Alen Cain



Tony Thompson
 

Allen Cain wrote:

As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

You mean like the one shown below? This one was steam cleaned and the manway closed with the tank hot. As it cooled and the pressure inside decreased, voila!

Tony Thompson



O Fenton Wells
 

Looks like one of my scratch building projects
Fenton

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:15 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Allen Cain wrote:

As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

You mean like the one shown below? This one was steam cleaned and the manway closed with the tank hot. As it cooled and the pressure inside decreased, voila!

Tony Thompson




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tony Thompson
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

Looks like one of my scratch building projects

   I once showed this photo in a clinic, and someone in the audience said, "They're not repairing that puppy."

Tony Thompson




O Fenton Wells
 

I think whoever volunteered that was on point.
Hope you and your family have a great Thanksgiving
Fenton

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:58 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Fenton Wells wrote:

Looks like one of my scratch building projects

   I once showed this photo in a clinic, and someone in the audience said, "They're not repairing that puppy."

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Tony Thompson
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

I think whoever volunteered that was on point.
Hope you and your family have a great Thanksgiving        

Same to you and yours, Fenton, and to everyone on the list.

Tony Thompson




Charles Peck
 

Here is a tank car vacuum collapse live.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:11 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
I think whoever volunteered that was on point.
Hope you and your family have a great Thanksgiving
Fenton

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:58 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Fenton Wells wrote:

Looks like one of my scratch building projects

   I once showed this photo in a clinic, and someone in the audience said, "They're not repairing that puppy."

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Steve SANDIFER
 

A friend who recently retired from supervising the Exxon tank fleet had a number of photos like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBq5uapC-e0  Most were related to cleaning, not unloading.

 

On of the funniest however was a line of tank cars with modern lock-tight couplers. One of the cars was missing a truck. Somewhere on the trip the truck derailed and left the track but the tank car stayed coupled to cars on both ends and finished the trip.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Lid

 

Allen Cain wrote:



As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

 

You mean like the one shown below? This one was steam cleaned and the manway closed with the tank hot. As it cooled and the pressure inside decreased, voila!

 

Tony Thompson

 

 


Allen Cain
 

Exactly!

Allen Cain


spsalso
 

"...the destructive power of a vacuum at -27psi."

I used to run a three-stage vacuum pump, and I could never get it below approx -15 psi.  Wonder what I was doing wrong.



Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Charles Peck wrote:
Here is a tank car vacuum collapse live.
Chuck Peck


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Ed and List Members,
 
That was subtle Ed, very subtle...
 
What Ed is trying to say is that normal atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI.
 
Thus a PERFECT VACUUM would read at -14.7 PSI (note the minus sign).
 
Therefore, a "vacuum at -27psi" is not possible under any circumstance on earth
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Lid

"...the destructive power of a vacuum at -27psi."

I used to run a three-stage vacuum pump, and I could never get it below approx -15 psi.  Wonder what I was doing wrong.



Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Charles Peck wrote:
Here is a tank car vacuum collapse live.
Chuck Peck