Hindsight 20/20 5.0
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A question on the stoci yards east of Chicago was asked during Steve's presentation. Boston had their's On Brighton New York City had theirs' in Manhatten.
https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/tag/cattle-stockyards-manhattan/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_Stock_Yards#:~:text=The%20Brighton%20Stock%20Yards%20were,Albany%20Railroad%20and%20transported%20west. http://www.bahistory.org/CattleIndustry.html
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Steve SANDIFER
Best overall book on Stock yards: Livestock Hotels by J’Nell L. Pate, TCU Press, Fort Worth.
Stockyard List from “The National Provisioner – Volume 65, p23 (1921)” AL Birmingham Birmingham Stockyards Co Montgomery L&N Stockyards Montgomery Union Stockyards Co of Montgomery
CO Denver Denver Union Stockyard Co
DC Benning Union Stockyards Co of New Jersey
FL Jacksonville National Stockyards
GA Augusta Augusta Stockyard Co Dublin Dublin Stockyards Co Moultrie Moultrie Stockyards
IA Sioux City Sioux City Stockyards Co
IL Chicago Union Stockyard & Transit Co of Chicago National Stockyards St Louis National Stockyards Co Peoria Peoria Union Stockyards Co
IN Evansville Evansville Union Stockyard Co Indianapolis Belt Railroad and Stockyards Co Lafayette Lafayette Union Stockyards Co
KS Wichita Wichita Union Stock Yards Co
KY Louisville Bourbon Stockyards Co
LA Arabi New Orleans Stockyards, Inc
MA Brighton Brighton Stockyards Co
MD Baltimore Union Stockyard Co
MI Detroit Michigan Central Railroad Co
MN South St Paul St Paul Union Stockyards Co
MO Kansas City Kansas City Stockyards Co South St Joseph St Joseph Stockyards Co
NE South Omaha Union Stockyards Co of Omaha
NJ Jersey City Jersey City Stockyards Co Newark Newark Stockyards
NY Buffalo New York Central Railroad Co New York New York Stockyards West Albany Patrick Horan & Sons
OH Cincinnati Cincinnati Union Stockyard Co Cleveland Cleveland Union Stockyards Co Columbus Drovers Union Stockyards Dayton Union Stockyards Co Fostoria Fostoria Union Stockyards Co Marion Marion Union Stockyards Co Springfield Springfield Union Stockyards Co Toledo Inter-State Stockyards Co Toledo Toledo Union Stockyards Co
OK Oklahoma City Oklahoma National Stockyards Co
OR North Portland Portland Union Stockyards Co
PA Lancaster Union Stockyard Philadelphia West Philadelphia Stockyard Co Pittsburgh Pittsburgh Union Stockyards Co
SC Columbia Columbia Stockyards Co
SD Sioux Falls Sioux Falls Stockyards Co
TN Chattanooga Foust-Yarnell Stockyards Knoxville East Tennessee Stockyards Memphis Dixie National Stockyards Memphis Joseph A Maxwell & Sons Commission Co Memphis South Memphis Stockyards Nashville Nashville Union Stockyards, Inc
TX El Paso El Paso Union Stockyards Co El Paso Independent Union Stockyards Co Fort Worth Fort Worth Stockyards Co San Antonio Union Stockyards
UT North Salt Lake Salt Lake Union Stockyards Ogden Union Stockyards
VA Richmond Richmond Union Stockyards Co Richmond Southern Stockyards Corp
WA Pasco Pasco Union Stockyards Co Seattle Union Stockyards Co Spokane Spokane Union Stock Yards Co
WI Milwaukee Milwaukee Stockyards Co
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Naylor
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 7:19 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0
A question on the stoci yards east of Chicago was asked during Steve's presentation. Boston had their's On Brighton New York City had theirs' in Manhatten.
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In Buffalo the both the Erie and the NYC had stockyards. NYC facility was very large, Erie facility not so large. Those were the only two in Buffalo. Dold had a large meat packing plant in Buffalo on the NYC near Clinton Street.
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rwilson1056
Found the National Stocktard for Jacksonville FL in one of the Sanborns for the city, see attached
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William Hirt
The Jacksonville Sanborn maps updated through 1949 are available on the Library of Congress web site: Here is the link to Volume 1a: <https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_008/> Here is the link to Volume 4: <https://www.loc.gov/item/sanborn01286_010/> The other updated Volumes thorough 1949 are not available on
online. Earlier years (1884 to 1913) are also available. The Library of Congress is gradually scanning their entire collection to place online. They say in the collection information they do not post anything beyond a copyright date of 1922, but there are exceptions I have found like the above. Bill Hirt
On 12/26/2020 3:39 PM, rwilson1056 via
groups.io wrote:
Found the National Stocktard for Jacksonville FL in one of the Sanborns for the city, see attached
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Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Bill and friends, Some cautions with the Sanborn maps are in order. Some of the colorful paper originals had updates pasted in over the years, so a book issued with a particular date might actually contain later information. Of course, this is hard to see on a digitized version, and IIRC, they paste-ins were not dated. Sanborn maps usually show railway tracks in detail. Not so with streetcar lines or interurbans, even when the electrified railway was a major freight carrier such as the Sacramento Northern. This exclusion began about the time of WWI. There are some early maps that show Oakland, Antioch & Eastern track (an SN predecessor) around 1912, but the same tracks are conspicuously absent from later maps. Electric railway right-of-way was usually shown as a blank space, sometimes bounded by drawn property lines, and indicated as "Electric Railway Right-of-Way" or some such wording. Many railroad buildings that fall into those zones are not shown either. Much (but not all) the Sanborn maps were microfilmed by the Center for Research Libraries many years ago. I don't know if the Library of Congress is able to issue the maps in a more complete version (contrary to popular belief, the Library of Congress does NOT own a copy of every item in the world, or even in the U.S.). Nor do I know if they are re-using the CRL collection. It would be a shame if they did, as the CRL maps are all black-and-white, while the Sanborn originals are color coded for the materials used in each building. If you are using online versions of these maps through state or local libraries and they are monochrome, they are probably digitizations of the CRL collection. There were other producers of similar fire insurance maps, but they were minor players. The Sanborn collection was the largest and most thorough, as well as in production for the longest time. I once got into big trouble over the Sanborn maps with the interlibrary loan people at the UVA Library where I worked. I made an ILL request for certain reels naming the Virginia towns in which I was interested. I expected four or five reels. CRL sent the entire Virginia collection, some 60 reels. As I viewed those reels, I understood why they did this. The information I wanted on the rural industrial areas I was researching was included with different towns during subsequent map re-issues. In addition, some towns extended across two or more reels. There was no index available. CRL had no way to tailor my request -- they just shipped the whole big shmegegge. UVA's ILL people were not happy to pay the postage each way on such a large and heavy carton. The lending clerk threw some very sharp words at me, and made a formal complaint to the ILL Director. The director nearly suspended my borrowing privileges, but eventually saw my side. Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 8:01 PM William Hirt <whirt@...> wrote:
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Brian Rochon
Garth et al,
A couple of comments regarding LOC Sanford Maps.
v/r, Brian Rochon Silver Spring, MD
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:03 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0
Bill and friends,
Some cautions with the Sanborn maps are in order.
Some of the colorful paper originals had updates pasted in over the years, so a book issued with a particular date might actually contain later information. Of course, this is hard to see on a digitized version, and IIRC, they paste-ins were not dated.
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rwilson1056
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Dennis Storzek
On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 05:03 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
But, keep in mind the purpose for which they were drawn; to allow someone in a distant office to assess the risk of fire spreading to a particular building. Since railroad tracks were both potential firebreaks and potential sources of ignition (from sparks thrown from passing locomotives) their LOCATION is shown quite accurately. However, their CONNECTIONS were of little interest and are often quite fanciful, or lacking entirely. I've run into this issue several times. Using a Sanborn map to research the Soo Line terminal in Eau Claire, WI, I was puzzled to see the the turntable lead drawn crossing the main line into the yard and continuing to a dead end in a lumber yard. Photos of the turntable showed the actual arrangement was two turnouts, the points of which were only a few feet apart. More confusing was the four stub ended tracks of the yard were drawn with no crossover to let an engine escape. There was a run-around track on the other side of the river; so it was possible the engine just ran around arriving trains there, then pushed into the yard, but giving the penchant for Sanborn maps to omit track, I don't know. Just this weekend I was looking at a Sanborn map of a different area; it showed a track that ran across a track scale and ended a couple hundred feet further on with no connection to any other track. However, the index map did show a track that curved in from an area marked "No Exposure" and connected to the middle of this orphan track. The connection wasn't pertinent to the detailed map, so they didn't bother to show it.
Indeed. I was looking at maps of Batavia, IL to establish a time-line of changes, and was surprised to see the Chicago Aurora & Elgin Batavia branch trackage was never drawn. Interestingly, the station (which was in a commercial building) was noted, and the passenger platform drawn, but no track. I get the feeling that the Sanborn Co. considered the electric railways to be less of a fire risk. Dennis Storzek
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Tony Thompson
Garth Groff awrote:
Only if they are simple. The area near the SP in San Luis Obispo, California shown in the Sanborn shows nothing at all in the railroad area, with the notation "full of tracks." The same map group shows a double-track industry service as single track, and shows a wye as a single curved track (one wye leg). I would say that Sanborn MAY show tracks accurately, but may well not.Tony Thompson
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Charlie Vlk
All- Tony is correct….the Sanborn Maps often did not accurately or at all show railroad tracks as they had no direct impact on the fire information. That being said, the earlier ones can provide some interesting information. For example, the earliest maps for Downers Grove, Illinois show the first location of the turntable in a parcel on the south side of the tracks that later became a lumber yard. When most suburban train terminations were transferred from Riverside to Downers Grove and a new suburban coach yard and engine house were built further west and on the north side of the tracks and a larger turntable was installed. Without the Sanborn Maps we would not have known about the earlier location. The earlier the issue the better chance it has of showing reasonable track configuration. Charlie Vlk
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 1:59 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hindsight 20/20 5.0
Garth Groff awrote:
Only if they are simple. The area near the SP in San Luis Obispo, California shown in the Sanborn shows nothing at all in the railroad area, with the notation "full of tracks." The same map group shows a double-track industry service as single track, and shows a wye as a single curved track (one wye leg). I would say that Sanborn MAY show tracks accurately, but may well not.
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