Topics

Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the update, Doug. Understanding the meat reefer fleets of the 1920s, beyond Armour and Swift, has been a challenge.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 01/05/2021 8:29 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Eric, according to the caption in the Billboard Refrigerator Cars book p. 180, the car was built by General American at their E Chicago shop. But the caption also contains errors giving the wrong built date and the wrong car number, when the information is clearly visible on the car. Those errors could give one pause to question the rest of the caption. I can see no markings on the hi-rez scan I have that indicates the car was built by General American. The car was built in 1928 and repainted in 1935, which could have obliterated any builder markings.


I got the photo scan from the Fairmont Railway Motor collection.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the info, Doug! The same question popped into my mind as I reviewed that image.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 01/05/2021 8:32 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Bob, the trucks contain a Protzellers Fairmont-Goodyear rubber block spring produced by the Fairmont Railway Motor Co. Which apparently did not sell.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 12:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer


RE: Cudahy 5557
What type of trucks are under this car?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA





Douglas Harding
 

Bob, the trucks contain a Protzellers Fairmont-Goodyear rubber block spring produced by the Fairmont Railway Motor Co. Which apparently did not sell.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 12:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

RE: Cudahy 5557
What type of trucks are under this car?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Douglas Harding
 

Eric, according to the caption in the Billboard Refrigerator Cars book p. 180, the car was built by General American at their E Chicago shop. But the caption also contains errors giving the wrong built date and the wrong car number, when the information is clearly visible on the car. Those errors could give one pause to question the rest of the caption. I can see no markings on the hi-rez scan I have that indicates the car was built by General American. The car was built in 1928 and repainted in 1935, which could have obliterated any builder markings.

 

I got the photo scan from the Fairmont Railway Motor collection.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 10:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Doug,

 

Is Cudahy 5557 a Mather car? It’s marked for return to E. Chicago where Mather had their plant. The car ends are a different design from later Mather cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Ray Breyer
 

Nope; it's company owned. In 1935 Cudahy was only leasing stock cars from Mather. Both companies (and several others) had their yards in East Chicago.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Monday, January 4, 2021, 10:45:31 AM CST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Doug,

 

Is Cudahy 5557 a Mather car? It’s marked for return to E. Chicago where Mather had their plant. The car ends are a different design from later Mather cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Bob Chaparro
 

RE: Cudahy 5557
What type of trucks are under this car?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Eric Hansmann
 

Doug,

 

Is Cudahy 5557 a Mather car? It’s marked for return to E. Chicago where Mather had their plant. The car ends are a different design from later Mather cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


william darnaby
 

There is an excellent color photo of Swift 6544 in red paint and with 4 hinges on the back cover of the Morning Sun Refrigerator Car Color Guide.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Garth that photo is of a 6 hinge car. The question is about a 4 hinge car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil and Doug,

 

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

 

Yours Aye,

 

 


Douglas Harding
 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 11:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Thanks for the info, Doug, and I am referring to the Atlas wood meat reefer. I see in the linked thread in the OP that you posted a few photos of Swift 4906, 9863, and a few other Swift wood reefers; I should have clarified that your photos were those I was referring to. I was just wondering if these were close to the Atlas reefer dimensionally.

-Phil 


Douglas Harding
 

Garth that photo is of a 6 hinge car. The question is about a 4 hinge car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil and Doug,

 

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:23 AM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Phil I assume you are asking about the Atlas wood 36’ wood meat reefer with 4 hinges. I believe it has been offered in a Swift p/l scheme. Atlas claims the wood meat reefer model is based upon a Cudahy reefer built circa 1925. This model was discussed at length when it was first produced as the details did not match any known prototype at the time. And no one had seen a photo of a Cudahy reefer that matched the model. Several years later I found a photo of a Cudahy reefer that is very close to the Atlas model, which I shared with Richard Hendrickson and he published in his Billboard Reefer book.

 

In the link you offered all the Swift reefers pictured are later steel reefers with a horizontal seam, from a single series of Swift reefers. Swift had a wide and diverse fleet of reefers. But I am not aware of any that matches the Atlas model exactly. Some of their wood reefers might be close. But not their steel reefers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Phil and Doug,

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:23 AM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Phil I assume you are asking about the Atlas wood 36’ wood meat reefer with 4 hinges. I believe it has been offered in a Swift p/l scheme. Atlas claims the wood meat reefer model is based upon a Cudahy reefer built circa 1925. This model was discussed at length when it was first produced as the details did not match any known prototype at the time. And no one had seen a photo of a Cudahy reefer that matched the model. Several years later I found a photo of a Cudahy reefer that is very close to the Atlas model, which I shared with Richard Hendrickson and he published in his Billboard Reefer book.

 

In the link you offered all the Swift reefers pictured are later steel reefers with a horizontal seam, from a single series of Swift reefers. Swift had a wide and diverse fleet of reefers. But I am not aware of any that matches the Atlas model exactly. Some of their wood reefers might be close. But not their steel reefers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034


nyc3001 .
 

Thanks for the info, Doug, and I am referring to the Atlas wood meat reefer. I see in the linked thread in the OP that you posted a few photos of Swift 4906, 9863, and a few other Swift wood reefers; I should have clarified that your photos were those I was referring to. I was just wondering if these were close to the Atlas reefer dimensionally.

-Phil 


Douglas Harding
 

Phil I assume you are asking about the Atlas wood 36’ wood meat reefer with 4 hinges. I believe it has been offered in a Swift p/l scheme. Atlas claims the wood meat reefer model is based upon a Cudahy reefer built circa 1925. This model was discussed at length when it was first produced as the details did not match any known prototype at the time. And no one had seen a photo of a Cudahy reefer that matched the model. Several years later I found a photo of a Cudahy reefer that is very close to the Atlas model, which I shared with Richard Hendrickson and he published in his Billboard Reefer book.

 

In the link you offered all the Swift reefers pictured are later steel reefers with a horizontal seam, from a single series of Swift reefers. Swift had a wide and diverse fleet of reefers. But I am not aware of any that matches the Atlas model exactly. Some of their wood reefers might be close. But not their steel reefers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034


nyc3001 .
 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034