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questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper
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vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
please have a look to these ebay auctions of differently lettered but otherwise identical cars: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-OMI-3274-4-ACF-Carbon-Black-hopper-Micronex-Columbian-Carbon-F-P-brass/233883368291?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-OMI-3274-3-ACF-Carbon-Black-hopper-JM-Huber-Corp-F-P-brass/333878132958?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-OMI-3274-1-ACF-Carbon-Black-hopper-Cabot-F-P-brass/233883372581?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I would like to get one of these, but at first have questions which need an answer in order to decide for or against a purchase. 1. How many of these cars were in existence? Were they very rare? 2. Did they travel nationwide or usually not far around their owners? 3. The Micronex car is most attractive to me, but the "NEW date" is 1934 - far too early for my period of post-war years. Is this lettering scheme correct for my period that I only would have to change that date? Lots of thanks Johannes Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953 |
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Richard Hendrickson did a nice article in January 2007 RMJ on Carbon Black cars which has background and photos
rmj_2007_1 – Trainlife.com Model Railroading Magazine Archive
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Hello friends, |
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The Society of Freight Car Historians published a 87 page “book” by Eric A. Neubauer in 1990, entitled "Carbon Black Cars", ISSN 0884-027x. This book not only explains the manufacture and uses of carbon black but, also lists the carbon black manufacturers and their locations as well as car rosters by cubic foot capacity with line drawings and, by operator, from 1933 to 1989. The January 1997 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman had a photo and drawing of a 1964 vintage Thrall 4727 cu. ft. car.
The cars went everywhere. Any manufacturer that made rubber, ie tires, hoses, belts, used Carbon Black. Also paint producers. Production was at petroleum plants. The gulf coast was one location.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 8:08 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper
Hello friends, |
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I may be wrong (and often are) but I think the Cabot car is closest to your time frame needs (car is stenciled "NEW 8-49"). These cars are still used to haul carbon black from the refineries along the Gulf coast to tire manufactures in Ohio (e.g., Firestone, Goodyear). Carbon black is a byproduct of oil refining and is added to rubber tires to improve their durability and provide UV protection. Cabot Carbon was a big actor in this business. Alas, several of their former properties are now Superfund cleanup sites due to chemicals they dealt with.
-- John |
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I think all of the models (brass - resin - plastic) represent one design - I am not certain which one! It's either the 2850 cuft or the 3000 cuft car. But it's not the 3480 cuft design which was wider and taller. By 1953 SHPX series 25162 to 25181 was 20 2850 cuft cars. By 1972 the exact same number series still has 19 cars but are now listed at 2998 cuft. Unfortunately the 1953 ORER does not have the extreme height and width information listed in 1972, so all I can do is guess that the cars were rebuilt by increasing the height slightly. On 2/4/2021 9:07 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote: Hello friends, --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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I forgot to include this photo of a JMHX 3600 cuft rebuild. All of the JMHX 3000 cuft cars were rebuilt as 3600 cuft between 1959 and 1963. On 2/4/2021 9:07 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote: Hello friends, --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Johannes, Were you aware that Funero & Camerlengo have kits for carbon black cars? See http://fandckits.com/HOFreight/6310.html Yours Aye, Garth Gorff 🦆 On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:08 AM vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote: Hello friends, |
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Ed Hawkins
Johannes, I’ll take a stab at answering your questions. Over time during the STMFC period were several sizes of carbon black cars to include capacities of 3000, 3400, 3465, 3480 & 3500 cubic feet. The OMI model is based on the 3000 cu. ft cars, and slightly more than 600 cars were built by ACF, GATC, and PSC (Pressed Steel Car Co.) from late 1933 thru 1949 with a production break during World War II. The larger cars collectively added to slightly less than 300 cars built from 1950 thru 1959 by ACF, GATC, Magor, and Thrall. The following quantities of 3000 cu. ft. cars were in service as of Jan. 1952. CABX - 116 Cabot CCX - 95 Columbian Carbon JMHX - 60 J.M. Huber UCBX - 120 United Carbon Several others had 40 cars or less in Jan. 1952: CCCX (40), CLTX (15), GACX (25), SHPX (20), SRCX (25), WITX (18). Some of these cars were transfers from previous original owners. For accurate models, the modeler should be aware that not all 3000 cu. ft. cars were identical. Cars built from late 1933 thru early 1942 came with wood running boards and vertical-staff hand brakes as were used on the OMI model. Due to WPB restrictions during World War II, production of carbon black cars were on hold from mid-1942 thru 1946. Production of 3000 cu. ft. carbon black cars resumed in 1947 with wood running boards, but hand brakes were changed to power-type (Ajax). Cars built in 1948-1949 continued with power hand brakes, and running boards were changed to steel. I’m unaware of any 3000 cu. ft cars built after ca. 8-49. Regarding the three OMI models, I’ll address each one individually. 1. CLTX 107 should be from series 106-110, 5 cars built 11-36 by ACF (lot 1572). The model is generally correct except for the build date. The 9-34 build date on the model would be accurate for CLTX 101-105 built by ACF in lot 1376. It’s highly doubtful if the original lettering would have been found in the postwar years, and it will take a photo of one of the 15 CLTX cars 101-115 to know how the cars were stenciled in the postwar years. 2. CABX 127 matches the scheme of an in-service photo of CABX 78 taken ca. 1948 (Charles E. Winters collection). Given the model has a wood running board & vertical-staff hand brake, the car number 127 is incorrect. The model can be made correct for the postwar years if the car number is changed from 31 thru 106. Build date stencils would of course depend on the car number selected, and could one of many from 12-34 thru 4-42. Conversely, the CABX 127 model can be corrected for prototype cars CABX 127-146, built 8-49 by ACF (lot 3389), which came with Apex Tri-lok rectangular open-grid running boards & Ajax power hand brakes. 3. JMHX 226 was from original series JMHX 225-230, 6 cars built 12-40 in ACF lot 2108. For many years the J.M. Huber cars had serif-style stencils for their 3000 cu. ft. cars built 12-35 thru 1-42, and on larger 3480 cu. ft. cars built in 5-52 per in-service photo of 267 from series JMHX 266-280. The company name stencils appear to have been 7” high extending across only the middle section of the car. I’ve not seen any 1940s-1950s photos of J.M. Huber cars matching the 226 model, and based on limited photos in my personal collection I believe this scheme would not be accurate for your 1953 cut-off date. Otherwise, the model could corrected for your period of interest by re-lettering with smaller serif stencils. Depending on how you might choose to proceed, I can help by providing you a scan to reflect the specific car of interest. Hope this helps. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
thanks to all who replied! Much more than I did expect!
Tim,
whereas JMHX 252 very obviously is a heigthened car, I think on SHPX #25176 the slope sheets are lower compared to the OMI model (assuming that model is accurate...). Maybe even the angle is more flat, both would make a little more capacity.
Thanks again!
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. Februar 2021 um 16:29 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper I think all of the models (brass - resin - plastic) represent one design - I am not certain which one! It's either the 2850 cuft or the 3000 cuft car. But it's not the 3480 cuft design which was wider and taller. By 1953 SHPX series 25162 to 25181 was 20 2850 cuft cars. By 1972 the exact same number series still has 19 cars but are now listed at 2998 cuft. Unfortunately the 1953 ORER does not have the extreme height and width information listed in 1972, so all I can do is guess that the cars were rebuilt by increasing the height slightly. On 2/4/2021 9:07 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote: Hello friends, -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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vapeurchapelon
Hello Garth,
no I wasn't. Many thanks for the link!
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. Februar 2021 um 17:34 Uhr
Von: "Garth Groff and Sally Sanford" <mallardlodge1000@...> An: main@realstmfc.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper Johannes,
Were you aware that Funero & Camerlengo have kits for carbon black cars? See http://fandckits.com/HOFreight/6310.html
Yours Aye,
Garth Gorff 🦆
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:08 AM vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:
Hello friends, |
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vapeurchapelon
Ed,
many thanks to you, too. Of course this helps a lot! I will need 1 or 2 days to go through all the material I received today.
Greetings
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. Februar 2021 um 19:33 Uhr
Von: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> An: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper
Johannes,
I’ll take a stab at answering your questions.
Over time during the STMFC period were several sizes of carbon black cars to include capacities of 3000, 3400, 3465, 3480 & 3500 cubic feet. The OMI model is based on the 3000 cu. ft cars, and slightly more than 600 cars were built by ACF, GATC, and PSC (Pressed Steel Car Co.) from late 1933 thru 1949 with a production break during World War II. The larger cars collectively added to slightly less than 300 cars built from 1950 thru 1959 by ACF, GATC, Magor, and Thrall.
The following quantities of 3000 cu. ft. cars were in service as of Jan. 1952.
CABX - 116 Cabot
CCX - 95 Columbian Carbon
JMHX - 60 J.M. Huber
UCBX - 120 United Carbon
Several others had 40 cars or less in Jan. 1952: CCCX (40), CLTX (15), GACX (25), SHPX (20), SRCX (25), WITX (18). Some of these cars were transfers from previous original owners.
For accurate models, the modeler should be aware that not all 3000 cu. ft. cars were identical. Cars built from late 1933 thru early 1942 came with wood running boards and vertical-staff hand brakes as were used on the OMI model. Due to WPB restrictions during World War II, production of carbon black cars were on hold from mid-1942 thru 1946. Production of 3000 cu. ft. carbon black cars resumed in 1947 with wood running boards, but hand brakes were changed to power-type (Ajax). Cars built in 1948-1949 continued with power hand brakes, and running boards were changed to steel. I’m unaware of any 3000 cu. ft cars built after ca. 8-49.
Regarding the three OMI models, I’ll address each one individually.
1. CLTX 107 should be from series 106-110, 5 cars built 11-36 by ACF (lot 1572). The model is generally correct except for the build date. The 9-34 build date on the model would be accurate for CLTX 101-105 built by ACF in lot 1376. It’s highly doubtful if the original lettering would have been found in the postwar years, and it will take a photo of one of the 15 CLTX cars 101-115 to know how the cars were stenciled in the postwar years.
2. CABX 127 matches the scheme of an in-service photo of CABX 78 taken ca. 1948 (Charles E. Winters collection). Given the model has a wood running board & vertical-staff hand brake, the car number 127 is incorrect. The model can be made correct for the postwar years if the car number is changed from 31 thru 106. Build date stencils would of course depend on the car number selected, and could one of many from 12-34 thru 4-42.
Conversely, the CABX 127 model can be corrected for prototype cars CABX 127-146, built 8-49 by ACF (lot 3389), which came with Apex Tri-lok rectangular open-grid running boards & Ajax power hand brakes.
3. JMHX 226 was from original series JMHX 225-230, 6 cars built 12-40 in ACF lot 2108. For many years the J.M. Huber cars had serif-style stencils for their 3000 cu. ft. cars built 12-35 thru 1-42, and on larger 3480 cu. ft. cars built in 5-52 per in-service photo of 267 from series JMHX 266-280. The company name stencils appear to have been 7” high extending across only the middle section of the car. I’ve not seen any 1940s-1950s photos of J.M. Huber cars matching the 226 model, and based on limited photos in my personal collection I believe this scheme would not be accurate for your 1953 cut-off date. Otherwise, the model could corrected for your period of interest by re-lettering with smaller serif stencils.
Depending on how you might choose to proceed, I can help by providing you a scan to reflect the specific car of interest.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Allen Cain
Rail Shop also produced four versions of Carbon Black cars, if you can find them on Ebay.
Allen Cain |
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David North
Hi Tim, Yes, you are right. Many of the 3000cft cars were modified to increase capacity. Taking the Cabot car pictured, it began life as part of series CABX 107-146 built in Dec 1949 by GA. Similar cars were built by ACF and PSC. In 1967, CABX 127-146 (20 cars) had their capacity increased to 4079cft by increasing the height by 28”. In some photos you can see the horizontal weld line along the side of the car. Of course, all this lies in the future for this list. Cheers Dave |
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John Mateyko <rattler21@...>
 Weaver three rail covered hopper. For Sale, with three rail trucks or without trucks. John Mateyko |
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 carbonblack ElizabethportNJ 11-1977.jpg)
 JMHuber series-206-265 carbonblack circa 1968.ebay.(CharlesHouser).jpg)