|
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Eric and List Members,
Thanks Eric for the interesting links.
How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior to the use of
dedicated carbon black hoppers? Bags or barrels in boxcars? Other method?
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions
regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop
IIRC, some of the earliest carbon black production was done
in W. Va. Here’s a story on an early operation.
http://www.hurherald.com/cgi-bin/db_scripts/articles?Action=user_view&db=hurheral_articles&id=42822
And news of Cabot closing their Waverly, W. Va., operation
in 2008.
https://investor.cabot-corp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/cabot-corporation-close-west-virginia-carbon-black-plant
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton
Wells
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 8:50 AM
To:
main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions
regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop
Years ago, early 198-'s I was a salesman for
Honeywell. I had OH, western KY and WV for my territory. I always
carried a camera, even though I never learned to take good photos, because of
all the railroads in OH and WV. Saw many carbon black hoppers in WV.If I
can find my photos I'll send what I have
Fenton. Maybe too late for your lettering help but
who knows.
Thanks for the kind words Fenton. I model the PRR’s
Shamokin Branch in central PA in 1955. This area was the last stand
for PRR steam. My layout can be viewed at: www.chuck-cover.net
Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM
--
|
|
|
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Claus,
Before there were the steel covered hoppers we know and love, bulk granular and powdered materials were sometimes shipped in LT (with loading equipment) and LTA (without loading equipment) "tank cars". These looked pretty much like a conventional multi-compartment tank car, except the domes had some sort of small loading doors/hatches in the top, and there were usually two loading gates for each compartment at the tank bottom. The 1919 CBC has a photo on page 181 of CYX 102, built for American Cyanamid Company. A year or so ago we discussed UTLX 81014, a similar three-dome car converted from a conventional frameless tank car.
Whether such cars were actually used for carbon black, I can't say for sure, but it does seem possible. This would probably take some research with ORERs, and a knowledge of what companies produced carbon black. I only have a complete 1958 ORER, and found no such cars under Cabot or Columbian Carbon, just 46' LO cars like the F&C model. There still were 100 LT and LTA cars operated by Barret, and 37 in the General American lease fleet, but I don't know that these cars carried. There might be more buried among the small operators, but our Chinese take-out has just arrived.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote:
Hi Eric and List Members,
Thanks Eric for the interesting links.
How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior to the use of
dedicated carbon black hoppers? Bags or barrels in boxcars? Other method?
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 10:27
AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions
regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop
|
|
|
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Thanks Garth!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 4:51
PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How would the
carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Claus,
Before there were the steel covered hoppers we know and love, bulk
granular and powdered materials were sometimes shipped in LT (with
loading equipment) and LTA (without loading equipment) "tank cars". These
looked pretty much like a conventional multi-compartment tank car, except the
domes had some sort of small loading doors/hatches in the top, and there were
usually two loading gates for each compartment at the tank bottom. The 1919
CBC has a photo on page 181 of CYX 102, built for American Cyanamid Company. A
year or so ago we discussed UTLX 81014, a similar three-dome car converted
from a conventional frameless tank car.
Whether such cars were actually used for carbon black, I can't say for
sure, but it does seem possible. This would probably take some research with
ORERs, and a knowledge of what companies produced carbon black. I only have a
complete 1958 ORER, and found no such cars under Cabot or Columbian Carbon,
just 46' LO cars like the F&C model. There still were 100 LT and LTA cars
operated by Barret, and 37 in the General American lease fleet, but
I don't know that these cars carried. There might be more buried among the
small operators, but our Chinese take-out has just arrived.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM Claus Schlund
\(HGM\) < claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Eric and List Members,
Thanks Eric for the interesting links.
How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior to the use
of dedicated carbon black hoppers? Bags or barrels in boxcars? Other
method?
Claus Schlund
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Friday, February 05, 2021 10:27 AM
Subject:
Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail
Shop
|
|
|
Claus,
In the mid seventies, a plant in Monmouth, NJ received Carbon Black, in bags delivered in ATSF Fe-27, and Fe-28 50' boxcars.
Rick Dietrichson ----------------------------------------- From: "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)" To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Cc: Sent: Friday February 5 2021 5:43:46PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Thanks Garth!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff and Sally
Sanford
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 05,
2021 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How
would the carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Claus,
Before there were the steel covered hoppers we know and love,
bulk granular and powdered materials were sometimes shipped in
LT (with loading equipment) and LTA (without loading equipment)
"tank cars". These looked pretty much like a conventional
multi-compartment tank car, except the domes had some sort of small
loading doors/hatches in the top, and there were usually two
loading gates for each compartment at the tank bottom. The 1919 CBC
has a photo on page 181 of CYX 102, built for American Cyanamid
Company. A year or so ago we discussed UTLX 81014, a similar
three-dome car converted from a conventional frameless tank
car.
Whether such cars were actually used for carbon black, I can't
say for sure, but it does seem possible. This would probably take
some research with ORERs, and a knowledge of what companies
produced carbon black. I only have a complete 1958 ORER, and found
no such cars under Cabot or Columbian Carbon, just 46' LO cars like
the F&C model. There still were 100 LT and LTA cars operated
by Barret, and 37 in the General American lease fleet,
but I don't know that these cars carried. There might be more
buried among the small operators, but our Chinese take-out has just
arrived.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM
Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Eric and List Members,
Thanks Eric for the interesting links.
How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior to
the use of dedicated carbon black hoppers? Bags or barrels in
boxcars? Other method?
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Hansmann
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon
Black Hopper---Rail Shop
IIRC, some of the earliest carbon black
production was done in W. Va. Here’s a story on an early
operation.
http://www.hurherald.com/cgi-bin/db_scripts/articles?Action=user_view&db=hurheral_articles&id=42822
And news of Cabot closing their Waverly, W.
Va., operation in 2008.
https://investor.cabot-corp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/cabot-corporation-close-west-virginia-carbon-black-plant
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O
Fenton Wells
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 8:50 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon
Black Hopper---Rail Shop
Years ago, early 198-'s I was a salesman for
Honeywell. I had OH, western KY and WV for my
territory. I always carried a camera, even though I never
learned to take good photos, because of all the railroads in OH and
WV. Saw many carbon black hoppers in WV.If I can find my
photos I'll send what I have
Fenton. Maybe too late for your
lettering help but who knows.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 9:28 AM Chuck Cover
<chuck.cover@...> wrote:
Thanks for the kind words Fenton. I
model the PRR’s Shamokin Branch in central PA in 1955. This
area was the last stand for PRR steam. My layout can be
viewed at: www.chuck-cover.net
Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
|
|
|
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Rick,
Thanks Rick for the info. Wow, delivered to New Jersey in ATSF boxcars
- I wonder where the cars were loaded? If loaded on the ATSF, that seems
like a long distance to haul carbon black...
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 6:14
PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How would the
carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Claus,
In the mid seventies, a plant in Monmouth, NJ received Carbon
Black, in bags delivered in ATSF Fe-27, and Fe-28 50' boxcars.
Rick Dietrichson
----------------------------------------- From: "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)"
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.ioCc:
Sent: Friday February 5 2021 5:43:46PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How
would the carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Thanks Garth!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 4:51
PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] How would the
carbon black product have been shipped prior...
Claus,
Before there were the steel covered hoppers we know and love, bulk
granular and powdered materials were sometimes shipped in LT (with
loading equipment) and LTA (without loading equipment) "tank cars". These
looked pretty much like a conventional multi-compartment tank car, except
the domes had some sort of small loading doors/hatches in the top, and there
were usually two loading gates for each compartment at the tank bottom. The
1919 CBC has a photo on page 181 of CYX 102, built for American Cyanamid
Company. A year or so ago we discussed UTLX 81014, a similar three-dome car
converted from a conventional frameless tank car.
Whether such cars were actually used for carbon black, I can't say for
sure, but it does seem possible. This would probably take some research with
ORERs, and a knowledge of what companies produced carbon black. I only have
a complete 1958 ORER, and found no such cars under Cabot or Columbian
Carbon, just 46' LO cars like the F&C model. There still were 100 LT and
LTA cars operated by Barret, and 37 in the General American
lease fleet, but I don't know that these cars carried. There might be
more buried among the small operators, but our Chinese take-out has just
arrived.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM Claus Schlund
\(HGM\) <claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Eric and List Members,
Thanks Eric for the interesting links.
How would the carbon black product have been shipped prior to the use
of dedicated carbon black hoppers? Bags or barrels in boxcars? Other
method?
Claus Schlund
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Eric Hansmann
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent:
Friday, February 05, 2021 10:27 AM
Subject:
Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail
Shop
IIRC, some of the earliest carbon black production
was done in W. Va. Here’s a story on an early operation.
http://www.hurherald.com/cgi-bin/db_scripts/articles?Action=user_view&db=hurheral_articles&id=42822
And news of Cabot closing their Waverly, W. Va.,
operation in 2008.
https://investor.cabot-corp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/cabot-corporation-close-west-virginia-carbon-black-plant
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton
Wells
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 8:50 AM
To:
main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC]
questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop
Years ago, early 198-'s I was a salesman for
Honeywell. I had OH, western KY and WV for my territory. I
always carried a camera, even though I never learned to take good
photos, because of all the railroads in OH and WV. Saw many carbon
black hoppers in WV.If I can find my photos I'll send what I have
Fenton. Maybe too late for your lettering help
but who knows.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 9:28 AM Chuck Cover
<chuck.cover@...> wrote:
Thanks for the kind words Fenton. I model the
PRR’s Shamokin Branch in central PA in 1955. This area was the
last stand for PRR steam. My layout can be viewed at: www.chuck-cover.net
Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC
28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
|
|
|
There was a big Cabot plant just west of Pampa, Texas, served by Santa Fe. Probably other carbon black plants nearby, since there was plenty of gas.
One other plant that used natural gas as a feedstock was a big Celanese plant, also just west of Pampa but on the opposite side of the main line from Cabot. One of its main products was acetic acid. Although this plant was started in 1952 on natural gas, in the late 70s it added a coal-fired power plant which took unit coal trains inbound. That had the benefit of freeing more natural gas for feedstock.
There was quite a bit of traffic in Celanese tank cars to and from this plant and the other Celanese plants in the Houston area (Bayport and Clear Lake) served by SP, and in south Texas, at Bishop, served by the MoPac.
Ron Merrick
|
|
|
Tim O'Connor
Carbon black was produced in large quantities in TX-OK-NM area
served by the ATSF
from natural gas feedstock. Distances for commodities is almost
meaningless - it's just about
the delivered cost. :-)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 2/5/2021 6:58 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
wrote:
Hi Rick,
Thanks Rick for
the info. Wow, delivered to New Jersey in ATSF boxcars - I
wonder where the cars were loaded? If loaded on the ATSF, that
seems like a long distance to haul carbon black...
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Friday,
February 05, 2021 6:14 PM
Subject: Re:
[RealSTMFC] How would the carbon black product have been
shipped prior...
Claus,
In the mid seventies,
a plant in Monmouth, NJ received Carbon Black, in bags
delivered in ATSF Fe-27, and Fe-28 50' boxcars.
Rick Dietrichson
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
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Around 1981 I worked in a factory where we got it in bags and large cardboard boxes lined with plastic film. It had very light density.
Factory made copy machine toner.
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