Rio Grande PS1


Scott
 

I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


 

Yarmouth makes a resin kit of DRGW 40’ cars. Not sure if they’re what you’re looking for, though. 



Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Feb 18, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:

I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Douglas Harding
 

The early Kadee PS1 dates from the early 50s. But Kadee came out with another late 40s body last year. There was a great clinic on the differences at Collinsville two years ago by someone this list. Hopefully he will chime in.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 10:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1

 

I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Scott & Group!

The date of the photo is 1973 and there is a USA map on the side, left of the door suggesting this is a leased car.  There is no entry under D&RGW in the Ed Hawkins list of newly built cars suggesting this car might be  beyond our time frame.  Rio Grande listing in the October 1958 ORER does not show this car.  That this car has a running board suggests that it 'got out there' before 1966 however.  Not sure this helps but it is what it is.

Regards from snowy Grove City, Penna. where it is still winter.   Mike Schleigh 


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 11:29:36 AM EST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:


I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


mopacfirst
 

Not a PS1 expert either, but I believe this is a second-hand 10'-0" height car, possibly from New Haven.  And definitely acquired by Rio Grande after the end of this list.

Ron Merrick


Schleigh Mike
 

Further to what I said below----

The October 1959 ORER does not show the D&RGW 50343 either.

The July 1970 ORER does show the car in the 50150-50499 series (341 cars) and in Note NN are shown to be leased from United States Railway Equipment Company.

I will leave it to others to find just when they got to the Rio Grande and from where they came.

Further regards from Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh



On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 12:13:11 PM EST, Schleigh Mike via groups.io <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:


Hello Scott & Group!

The date of the photo is 1973 and there is a USA map on the side, left of the door suggesting this is a leased car.  There is no entry under D&RGW in the Ed Hawkins list of newly built cars suggesting this car might be  beyond our time frame.  Rio Grande listing in the October 1958 ORER does not show this car.  That this car has a running board suggests that it 'got out there' before 1966 however.  Not sure this helps but it is what it is.

Regards from snowy Grove City, Penna. where it is still winter.   Mike Schleigh 


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 11:29:36 AM EST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:


I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Schleigh Mike
 

D&RGW was a 10-6 IH car----Mike Schleigh

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 12:23:38 PM EST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Not a PS1 expert either, but I believe this is a second-hand 10'-0" height car, possibly from New Haven.  And definitely acquired by Rio Grande after the end of this list.

Ron Merrick


Clark Propst
 

Looks like I renumbered it  ;  ))

 

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Steve and Barb Hile
 

In the July 1966 ORER, this cars is part of series 50150-50499, 350 cars with a note to indicate that they are leased, but carry D&RGW reporting marks.

 

So, probably not original Rio Grande cars.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schleigh Mike via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1

 

Hello Scott & Group!

 

The date of the photo is 1973 and there is a USA map on the side, left of the door suggesting this is a leased car.  There is no entry under D&RGW in the Ed Hawkins list of newly built cars suggesting this car might be  beyond our time frame.  Rio Grande listing in the October 1958 ORER does not show this car.  That this car has a running board suggests that it 'got out there' before 1966 however.  Not sure this helps but it is what it is.

 

Regards from snowy Grove City, Penna. where it is still winter.   Mike Schleigh 

 

 

On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 11:29:36 AM EST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:

 

 

I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Mike and Scott,

Correct. D&RGW 50150-50499 were leased from USRE in 1966. They were a mixed bag of rebuilt cars, some with a rare 10' IH from the New Haven, and others 10' 6" IH. There are photos of both types and an explanation in Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996). Jim says the Grande ended up buying the lot, and some were in MW service for years. I've heard someplace that this lot included some non-PS1s as well, but I can't confirm that.

Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 12:13 PM Schleigh Mike via groups.io <mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Scott & Group!

The date of the photo is 1973 and there is a USA map on the side, left of the door suggesting this is a leased car.  There is no entry under D&RGW in the Ed Hawkins list of newly built cars suggesting this car might be  beyond our time frame.  Rio Grande listing in the October 1958 ORER does not show this car.  That this car has a running board suggests that it 'got out there' before 1966 however.  Not sure this helps but it is what it is.

Regards from snowy Grove City, Penna. where it is still winter.   Mike Schleigh 


On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 11:29:36 AM EST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:


I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Richard Townsend
 

Here's a McKean version of the taller cars (no warranty of accuracy express or implied):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MCKEAN-HO-RIO-GRANDE-D-RGW-50263-40-PS-1-BOX-CAR-Kit-NOS-LIMITED-EDITION/383956893219?hash=item59659d3e23:g:x2MAAOSwdNpgHCzS

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2021 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1

In the July 1966 ORER, this cars is part of series 50150-50499, 350 cars with a note to indicate that they are leased, but carry D&RGW reporting marks.
 
So, probably not original Rio Grande cars.
 
Steve Hile 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schleigh Mike via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1
 
Hello Scott & Group!
 
The date of the photo is 1973 and there is a USA map on the side, left of the door suggesting this is a leased car.  There is no entry under D&RGW in the Ed Hawkins list of newly built cars suggesting this car might be  beyond our time frame.  Rio Grande listing in the October 1958 ORER does not show this car.  That this car has a running board suggests that it 'got out there' before 1966 however.  Not sure this helps but it is what it is.
 
Regards from snowy Grove City, Penna. where it is still winter.   Mike Schleigh 
 
 
On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 11:29:36 AM EST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:
 
 
I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Scott,

Let me add that AFAIK, the only Rio Grande 40' steel boxcars appropriate to our era of interest were Pressed Steel 12-panel, solid side sill cars with a 10' 4" IH and 6' doors. The closest model I know of were C&BT Shops kits (5/5 or 4/4 ends of 10' 6" IH, but hey, what's two inches between friends?). These were delivered in five lots. 68000-68399 of 1939 had 5/4 Dreadnaught ends (large flat space between the top wale and the running board), Youngstown corrugated doors and wood running boards. 68400-68899 (1940), 68900-69399 (1941) and 69400-69899 (1942) were identical, except for steel running boards, plus 7-panel Superior doors only on the 1942 group. The last lot was delivered in 1946 and had 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends (top wale slightly trimmed), Youngstown doors, and ASF A-3 Ride Control Trucks. 

The joker in the deck is that ALL these cars had Duryea Cushion Underframes. Kit-bashing this underframe might be why I only did one of these cars. (Some ATSF 12-panel cars had Duryea underframes too, but I balked).

Attached are two cars from the Glenwood Springs outfit train taken from Amtrak's California Zephyr on one of many trips I took to visit my father in California. Best date would be around 2000. AX-68032 is from the 1939 group and is one of the famous Cookie Box conversions. AX-60080 is from the 1946 cars, but has had its door replaced.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 11:29 AM Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:
I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Ed Hawkins
 



On Feb 18, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:

I am not a PS1 expert by any stretch so wondering what version of PS1 the proto photo is of the in EBAY link below?  The DRGW historical site says it was PS1 built in 1948 if that helps.  Comparing the photo to the Kadee cars the Kadee cars have an extra smaller rib on top.  Is there an HO scale model that would be closer to the proto photo?  I would like to add one to my fleet.

Rio Grande Proto photo Ebay link.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 

Scott & others interested,
The Oct. 1966 ORER lists Rio Grande 50150-51499, which were 350 second-hand 40’-6” PS-1 box cars built in 1948 with 7’ door openings. In any event this is after the prescribed STMFC time period.

Because D&RGW 50343 in the ebay link from was built in 1948, a date applicable for STMFC discussion, I’m taking some liberty to provide a limited amount of history. The 10/66 ORER lists the cars as having 10’-6” IH, but 50343 clearly had a 10’-0” IH as the “A” end in the photo lacks having the uppermost 2” corrugation. 

Pullman-Standard built just 3 series (all in 1948) of PS-1 box cars having 10’-0” IH: two for New Haven & one for Delaware, Lackawanna & Western. The 50343 car was built as part of original series NH 34500-34999 (P-S lot 5894) or NH 35000-35999 (P-S lot 5907) that rode on A-3 Ride Control trucks. Of the original 1,500 NH PS-1s built in these two lots, New Haven reported 1,462 cars as being in-service per the Jan. 1960 ORER.

Kadee offers an HO-scale model that’s based on a 10’-6” inside height (IH) PS-1 box car built in 1947-1948 having the 2”-deep uppermost corrugation on both ends and either 6’ or 7’ door openings. I’m unaware of any scale models that represent the relatively-uncommon 40’-6” PS-1 box car having a 10’-0” IH. 


The attached photo illustrates the original appearance, including black doors of the 10’ IH New Haven PS-1. Photo is credited to George Sisk from the Charles E. Winters collection. Other than different paint & lettering, the D&RGW car was essentially unchanged except for the door and end placard boards being lowered per AAR guidance ca. 1954. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins








Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Ehni wrote:
"Yarmouth makes a resin kit of DRGW 40’ cars. Not sure if they’re what you’re looking for, though." 

Not if you're looking for a PS-1...which this model is NOT.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 


I have images of SIX of the 50150 to 50499 cars and all them are 10-0 IH and have 7 foot doors.

Exactly one railroad bought 10-0 IH PS-1 box cars with 7 foot doors -  the New Haven. And they
bought 1500 of them!

Some appear to have gone to ACY, some CNW, and some continued on under PC and then CR.
All of the New Haven PS-1's were built before 1950, so the roofs would be the early PS-1 style.

The ORER lists the entire series as 10-6 with 7 foot doors. So don't trust everything in the ORER ! :-D



On 2/18/2021 1:59 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Mike and Scott,

Correct. D&RGW 50150-50499 were leased from USRE in 1966. They were a mixed bag of rebuilt cars, some with a rare 10' IH from the New Haven, and others 10' 6" IH. There are photos of both types and an explanation in Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996). Jim says the Grande ended up buying the lot, and some were in MW service for years. I've heard someplace that this lot included some non-PS1s as well, but I can't confirm that.

Garth Groff  🦆


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Unfortunately the 6 foot door disqualifies this model.


On 2/18/2021 2:36 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:
Here's a McKean version of the taller cars (no warranty of accuracy express or implied):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MCKEAN-HO-RIO-GRANDE-D-RGW-50263-40-PS-1-BOX-CAR-Kit-NOS-LIMITED-EDITION/383956893219?hash=item59659d3e23:g:x2MAAOSwdNpgHCzS

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2021 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1

In the July 1966 ORER, this cars is part of series 50150-50499, 350 cars with a note to indicate that they are leased, but carry D&RGW reporting marks.
 
So, probably not original Rio Grande cars.
 
Steve Hile

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Richard Townsend
 

So it does. My bad. Or McKean's.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2021 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1


Unfortunately the 6 foot door disqualifies this model.


On 2/18/2021 2:36 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:
Here's a McKean version of the taller cars (no warranty of accuracy express or implied):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MCKEAN-HO-RIO-GRANDE-D-RGW-50263-40-PS-1-BOX-CAR-Kit-NOS-LIMITED-EDITION/383956893219?hash=item59659d3e23:g:x2MAAOSwdNpgHCzS

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2021 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1

In the July 1966 ORER, this cars is part of series 50150-50499, 350 cars with a note to indicate that they are leased, but carry D&RGW reporting marks.
 
So, probably not original Rio Grande cars.
 
Steve Hile

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


D. Scott Chatfield
 

Tim O wrote:

> Exactly one railroad bought 10-0 IH PS-1 box cars with 7 foot doors -  the New Haven. And they bought 1500 of them!

Did somebody say 7 foot door?  Isn't that what the old Kurtz Kraft, later Connonball Car Shops, flat kit PS-1 had?   Hmmm....


Scott Chatfield


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim,

As I said, Jim Eager's book shows photos of  both a 10' and a 10' 6" IH car from the leased D&RGW series. It was apparently a mixed bag.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 5:55 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have images of SIX of the 50150 to 50499 cars and all them are 10-0 IH and have 7 foot doors.

Exactly one railroad bought 10-0 IH PS-1 box cars with 7 foot doors -  the New Haven. And they
bought 1500 of them!

Some appear to have gone to ACY, some CNW, and some continued on under PC and then CR.
All of the New Haven PS-1's were built before 1950, so the roofs would be the early PS-1 style.

The ORER lists the entire series as 10-6 with 7 foot doors. So don't trust everything in the ORER ! :-D



On 2/18/2021 1:59 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Mike and Scott,

Correct. D&RGW 50150-50499 were leased from USRE in 1966. They were a mixed bag of rebuilt cars, some with a rare 10' IH from the New Haven, and others 10' 6" IH. There are photos of both types and an explanation in Jim Eager's RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996). Jim says the Grande ended up buying the lot, and some were in MW service for years. I've heard someplace that this lot included some non-PS1s as well, but I can't confirm that.

Garth Groff  🦆


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Scott
 

Thank you for all the replies!  Guess I will scratch that idea off the list!  I saw the 1948 build date and just assumed Rio Grande bought them new.  I do have plenty of Pierre's Rio Grands cars to keep me busy though!

Thanks 
Scott McDonald