Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S


gary laakso
 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Bruce Smith
 

Gary, Elden, Folks,

Unless you have some evidence, I highly doubt that the carriers supplying the flat cars controlled the routing. There are several reasons for this.

1) Shippers controlled the routing (usually).
2) During WWII, car service rules were suspended for flat cars, so car owners no longer had any control over the movement of their cars. 
3) If anyone was dictating routes for war materiel, other than the shipper, it would have been the ODT (Office of Defense Transportation).

Shipments of the S160 type locomotive (2-8-0) were common to both coasts. ALCo, Baldwin, and Lima all contributed. With the release of the Roco S160 a few years back, I got more serious about modeling this traffic, as the previous S160 in HO was a kit from DJH, but both cost in the range of $300+ and that does seem a bit steep for a flat car load, where I plan to gut the electronics and motor ;) (so if anyone has a Roco S160 that blew its guts… let me know!

I have numerous photos of these loads. I downloaded 5 or so photos that were from links to the museum of U of Montana, posted by you, Gary, to this list, back on March 16, 2012 - so I’m not sure why you told Elden there were no photos ;) I’ll post some when I get home tonight. I also remember that there is a photo in DeNevi’s book America's Fighting Railroads: A World War II Pictorial History.

BTW, these were called the Sha class by the Soviets. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 9, 2021, at 12:38 PM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.
 
The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   
 
The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.
 
Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217.  
 
This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly.  
 
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


mel perry
 

any particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,
and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit
form to the POE, and then assembled?
thanks
;-)
mel perry

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


gary laakso
 

Yes, that is the division between kits and assembled at the factory.  Records don’t show the reason, though the size and weight of the locomotive likely would have required scarce special flatcars.  The docks used for the decapod storage until vessels were available was 5’-0” gauge.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:16 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

any particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,

and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit

form to the POE, and then assembled?

thanks

;-)

mel perry

 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 07:16 PM, mel perry wrote:
ny particular reason, that the 2-8-0's were shipped built from the factory,
and the 2-10-0's were shipped in kit
form to the POE, and then assembled?
The 2-10-0's were tall locomotives built to Russian loading gauge, essentially copies of the "Russian Decapods" that were stranded in the US by the Bolshevik Revolution twenty five years before. They'd easily tower 19 or 20 feet over the rail if loaded assembled on a standard flat.. The 2-8-0's were tiny, built to fit British loading gauge; you can see the difference in the low domes and placement of the cab.

Dennis Storzek
 


Richard Wilkens
 

Hi All,

The material Paul Hobbs used in creation of his article came from the SP&S Railway Historical Society Archives and this comes from SP&S File 272-17-3 "Exports to Russia".

I have attached a few letters from this file which are for the locomotives and the power trains. Besides the PRR "converter cars" (cars with knuckle couplers one end and Willison couplers on the other end) there were also DL&W cars setup this way.

Richard Wilkens

Editor "The Northwest's Own Railway"
Archivist, SP&S Railway Historical Society


Bruce Smith
 

Richard,

Great stuff! It would appear that the converter cars were to handle the power plant trains. It is interesting that they were moved on the rail, presumably using US gauge trucks, and presumably having their trucks swapped to 5' gauge at some point.

I note that at least 2 of the 70-ton NYC flats for hauling the locomotives appear to be in "captive" service, with instructions to return with loading devices (rails, etc...) intact. These cars were then NOT in the national pool. Very interesting. 

I also note the speed limits of 30 mph for locos and 25 mph for the power plants. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 11:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Hi All,

The material Paul Hobbs used in creation of his article came from the SP&S Railway Historical Society Archives and this comes from SP&S File 272-17-3 "Exports to Russia".

I have attached a few letters from this file which are for the locomotives and the power trains. Besides the PRR "converter cars" (cars with knuckle couplers one end and Willison couplers on the other end) there were also DL&W cars setup this way.

Richard Wilkens

Editor "The Northwest's Own Railway"
Archivist, SP&S Railway Historical Society


Richard Wilkens
 

Bruce,

Yes the power cars were on standard gauge trucks and were swapped out with 5' gauge trucks when loaded on the ships. The standard gauge trucks were originally sent back to the factories building the power trains but at one point they were offered for sale to the SP&S. At the time the SP&S wasn't in need of extra cast steel trucks so they declined.

Rich Wilkens