[EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S


Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Jim Gates
 

Locomotives to Russia in WWII (actually into 1946):

90 S160 2-8-0 to Russia
50 S162 2-8-0 to Russia
60 S166 2-8-0 to Russia
10 Porter 0-4-0T to Russia
20 Porter 0-6-0T to Russia
15 Porter narrow gauge 0-8-0 to Russia
1 Porter 0-8-0 to Russia
2060 2-10-0 to Russia
50 Alco RSC1 to Russia
8 Whitcomb 4 wheel switchers

Numbers from a spreadsheet I put together from same book.

Jim Gates

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, 07:42:43 PM CST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Tom Madden
 

This Ralph Hallock photo from the Colorado RR Museum collection shows three 0-6-0T locomotives on a B&A freight at Chatham NY in 1944. (Month and day not specified.) Ralph's caption:
"0-6-0T tank engines bound for Russia on a B&A train at Chatham NY". 

The lead flat is Milwaukee Road car and has an overhanging deck. Can't make out the road name of the second flat but it has a flush deck

Tom Madden


John Barry
 

The National Archives at San Bruno holds records from the Office of  Defense Transportation Liquid Transport Department.  Among the files are records of tank car movements of asphalt to Hanford Washington, 100 octane aviation gasoline from Richmond to Reno, and the attached correspondence about cars of linseed oil routed to Dorward at Richmond via the Santa Fe.  Dorward had a tank terminal at Point San Pablo on the Richmond Belt and handled consolidation of more than a few tanker loads destined to Vladivostok as the Soviets took advantage of their neutrality towards Japan to move much lend-lease material from the west coast via a supply line out of reach of the Germans.  In addition to the locomotives and other rolling stock (some of which shipped from California ports) other commodities moved by rail for transhipment in freighters and tankers included several shipments of alcohol. In some cases, distillers shipped direct to Richmond, in others, the Commodity Credit Corporation transferred trainloads of stored product from Baton Rouge Louisianna to Richmond to meet the Soviet tankers.     




Inline image

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, 08:42:44 PM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Are those S100 class?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Jim Gates
 

Since this was an over trimmed post, I'm guessing you are referring to the photograph of the 0-6-0T locomotives.

The only model identification I have seen is specification T.1531. 1290 was built by Davenport in 1942, builder number 2420.

Jim Gates

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 01:08:46 AM CST, Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek <jvgbvg@...> wrote:


Are those S100 class?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA