1. Topics
  2. HOn3 D&RGW caboose

HOn3 D&RGW caboose

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I am going to be painting the attached caboose model for a friend.  I have three questions:

 

  1. Can anyone identify this model?  Original date of manufacture?  Importer? Maker?  The box shown with the caboose is evidently the original box, based on the “packing” being the same or very similar to the packing I’ve seen in Max Gray models I’ve bought in original packaging.  There are no markings on the model or on or in the box, other than the pencil notation on the end of the cover.  It’s a very nice model, very well built and seems to be accurate.

  2. The owner of the model has requested I paint it using P-B-L “Rio Grande Freight Car Color.”  If I am not mistaken, that is an acrylic paint, and I am very much disinclined to use an acrylic paint (N.B.: don’t bother to try to tell me that they are easy to use, just as good, clearly the right color or any of that.  Maybe they are in the right hands, but based on my experiences, my hands are not the right hands.  I stick to lacquers, period.)  So are there recommendations among all the experts on this list for a good color in a lacquer paint?  Preferably Scalecoat?

  3. Decals?

 

TIA

 

Schuyler
Joseph
 

If the paint is Star Brand it is not an acrylic.  I have used it and it is closer to Trucolor or Accupaint.  Awesome stuff
Joe Binish

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 1:18 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

I am going to be painting the attached caboose model for a friend.  I have three questions:

 

  1. Can anyone identify this model?  Original date of manufacture?  Importer? Maker?  The box shown with the caboose is evidently the original box, based on the “packing” being the same or very similar to the packing I’ve seen in Max Gray models I’ve bought in original packaging.  There are no markings on the model or on or in the box, other than the pencil notation on the end of the cover.  It’s a very nice model, very well built and seems to be accurate.

  2. The owner of the model has requested I paint it using P-B-L “Rio Grande Freight Car Color.”  If I am not mistaken, that is an acrylic paint, and I am very much disinclined to use an acrylic paint (N.B.: don’t bother to try to tell me that they are easy to use, just as good, clearly the right color or any of that.  Maybe they are in the right hands, but based on my experiences, my hands are not the right hands.  I stick to lacquers, period.)  So are there recommendations among all the experts on this list for a good color in a lacquer paint?  Preferably Scalecoat?

  3. Decals?

 

TIA

 

Schuyler
Tony Thompson
 

Joe Binish wrote:

If the paint is Star Brand it is not an acrylic.  I have used it and it is closer to Trucolor or Accupaint.  Awesome stuff

    Joe is exactly right on all counts. Star Brand is excellent paint.

Tony Thompson
Todd Sullivan
 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan
gary laakso
 

The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Tony Thompson
 

gary laakso wrote:

The PFE 1963 catalogue  . . .

I assume Gary means PFM?

Tony Thompson
gary laakso
 

Yes, too many years with SPT.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

gary laakso wrote:



The PFE 1963 catalogue  . . .

 

I assume Gary means PFM?

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 
Schuyler Larrabee
 

That helps, Gary.  What year is the 9th edition?

 

In response to Todd, the label (yes, on the bottom there was something over it) doesn’t say PFM, it simply says United

Scale Models

And at the bottom

Tokyo Japan

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 3:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Brian Shumaker
 

Star brand paint, a P-B-L exclusive, is a lacquer and should only be thinned with Star Brand Lacquer Thinner. The multi-paint layer weathering technique using fiberglass and wire brushes is unique.
Full disclosure, I'm a semi closeted Sn3 modeler and loyal P-B-L customer and heartily recommend them. Check them out.

Brian Shumaker
gary laakso
 

The PFM catalogue pictures show truss rods and two trucks on the caboose.  The 9th Edition does not have a reference to the date of its issuance but likely 1965-66. 

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

That helps, Gary.  What year is the 9th edition?

 

In response to Todd, the label (yes, on the bottom there was something over it) doesn’t say PFM, it simply says United

Scale Models

And at the bottom

Tokyo Japan

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 3:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Andy Carlson
 

Years ago, when prolific author to model magazines, Jim Six, offered detailing diesel locomotive articles he was a huge advocate for AccuPaint painting. I was influenced and based largely on his recs. I ended up embrasing AccuPaint as my go-to paint. Happy ever since. When Bill Welch mentioned to me his discomfort with his stash of AccuPaints and TruColors because of the success he achieved with Acrylics I bought his bottles. I know that acrylics are becoming quite popular though my love of lacquers gives me little reasons for abandoning them.

Jim Six said that he used lacquer thinner for reducing AccuPaint, Floquil and ScaleCoat (1) paints. I went through my quart bottle of AccuPaint thinner and switched over to automotive lacquer reducer with zero ill effects. I did a few Scale Coat black paint with my automotive reducer with fine results. Never tried with Floquil.

I later learned that AccuPaint reducer was a combination of acetone and a class of an alcohol solvent. Automotive lacquer reducer uses similar classes of solvents, so the positive effectiveness should not be a surprise.

One advantage of the automotive reducers is the options of getting differing drying results. As a rule of thumb, the slower flashing off time makes for a wetter surface which facilitates a glossier cured surface.

Even at the high prices for automotive lacquer reducer, a gallon is less than $80 and the per pint cost is about $10, a reasonable price for a high quality substitute. Going way cheaper, hardware store gallon cans of lacquer thinner is under $30 which now approaches being cheap. I don't think that I have ever thinned any of the three Accupaint clones (Accupaint Star Brand and TruColor- which are all manufactured in Southern California to the same basic formula) with hardware store lacquer thinner though I do use it for clean-up. I knew a guy who got good results with the cheaper lacquer thinner. Considering how little thinner/reducer is used for thinning paints, the dual use of expense reducer for paint, and bargain lacquer thinner for cleaning is a good use of products.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Monday, April 12, 2021, 12:49:52 PM PDT, Brian Shumaker <brian.shumaker@...> wrote:


Star brand paint, a P-B-L exclusive, is a lacquer and should only be thinned with Star Brand Lacquer Thinner. The multi-paint layer weathering technique using fiberglass and wire brushes is unique.
Full disclosure, I'm a semi closeted Sn3 modeler and loyal P-B-L customer and heartily recommend them. Check them out.

Brian Shumaker

Bryian Sones
 

Add me to the list of Star Brand being a good paint and not an Acrylic. It is great on brass or plastic.

I model U.P. and D&RGW narrow gauge in Ho. 
I am not saying I'm an expert on the D&RGW short caboose at all but...
I did do some research to build a few of them
I built 5 of them from PSC kits and I have two brass ones

There are a bunch of variations of the short caboose so you really shouldn't decal it without doing some research if you want it correct.
spotting things to look for are:

1) Car Ends -There is a rounded version and a Square (flush end)
2) The bolster ends. -There is a Square and Rounded end
3) Copula windows -  Double window,  cross braces and none
4) Copula window awnings - Double, single or none
5) Copula  Square or Angled sides
6) steps- straight or angled sides,.
7) ladders Below roof straight or curved. Above roof curved.

A good reference book is Narrow gauge pictorial volume V . "Cabooses of The D&RGW".

Decals,  I use San Juan Decals or Thin Film  


Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Monday, April 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM PDT, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:


The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Gary, that ties it down pretty well, I’d say. 

 

  • Two windows on the non-smokestack side
  • 1965-66
  • The packaging is consistent, in my experience, with that time period.
  • United model, so PFM (and it’s in the PFM catalog)

 

Still, strikes me as odd that there is not any label on the box.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

The PFM catalogue pictures show truss rods and two trucks on the caboose.  The 9th Edition does not have a reference to the date of its issuance but likely 1965-66. 

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

That helps, Gary.  What year is the 9th edition?

 

In response to Todd, the label (yes, on the bottom there was something over it) doesn’t say PFM, it simply says United

Scale Models

And at the bottom

Tokyo Japan

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 3:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Schuyler Larrabee
 

From Brian Sones:

 

1) Car Ends -There is a rounded version and a Square (flush end)           Square ends - carbody

2) The bolster ends. -There is a Square and Rounded end                       None visible on the model

3) Copula windows -  Double window,  cross braces and none                 None

4) Copula window awnings - Double, single or none                                Single

5) Copula  Square or Angled sides                                                         Square

6) steps- straight or angled sides,.                                                         Straight

7) ladders Below roof straight or curved. Above roof curved.                    Below roof, curved at top

 

Incidentally the model has two brake cylinders (and no other underbody detailing, and has brass scale coupler pockets, leading to the question of how to affix a Kadee coupler (which I know the owner will want).

 

And as Gary mentioned, there are two windows on the non-smokebox side (conversely, one window on the smokestack side).

 

So, Brian, does that put this model in a particular number series?  Thank you very much for this list of spotting features.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bryian Sones via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Add me to the list of Star Brand being a good paint and not an Acrylic. It is great on brass or plastic.

 

I model U.P. and D&RGW narrow gauge in Ho. 

I am not saying I'm an expert on the D&RGW short caboose at all but...

I did do some research to build a few of them

I built 5 of them from PSC kits and I have two brass ones

 

There are a bunch of variations of the short caboose so you really shouldn't decal it without doing some research if you want it correct.

spotting things to look for are:

 

1) Car Ends -There is a rounded version and a Square (flush end)

2) The bolster ends. -There is a Square and Rounded end

3) Copula windows -  Double window,  cross braces and none

4) Copula window awnings - Double, single or none

5) Copula  Square or Angled sides

6) steps- straight or angled sides,.

7) ladders Below roof straight or curved. Above roof curved.

 

A good reference book is Narrow gauge pictorial volume V . "Cabooses of The D&RGW".

 

Decals,  I use San Juan Decals or Thin Film  

 

 

Bryian Sones

Union Pacific Prototype Modeler

Murrieta, CA

 

 

On Monday, April 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM PDT, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

 

 

The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side.   The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue.  The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Can’t help with the exact color issue, but we have D&RGW shorty caboose no.0526 here at the Huckleberry Railroad in Flint, MI. Sadly for your question, the cabose has been repainted several times over its lifetime, and was recenty totally restored (frame-up) here at HRR just a few years ago. It’s now about 80% new wood, though we reused what we could if it remained structurally sound.

Dan Mitchell
==========




On Apr 12, 2021, at 3:16 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Dan, that caboose appears to have a rounded corner on the carbody itself, which makes it different that the model I have to paint.  I appreciate your sending along this image.

 

Geez, this morning I didn’t know one D&RGW narrow gauge caboose from another and now I’m picking out spotting features.  Is this a great list to learn from, or not!?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 6:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose

 

Can’t help with the exact color issue, but we have D&RGW shorty caboose no.0526 here at the Huckleberry Railroad in Flint, MI. Sadly for your question, the cabose has been repainted several times over its lifetime, and was recenty totally restored (frame-up) here at HRR just a few years ago. It’s now about 80% new wood, though we reused what we could if it remained structurally sound.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

 

 



On Apr 12, 2021, at 3:16 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

 

Schuyler,

I don't want to tout the obvious, but the PFM label on the caboose (the bottom, I assume) identifies it as a PFM product, and it definitely has the appearance of a D&RGW narrow gauge caboose with 4 wheel trucks.I'm not sufficiently conversant with Rio Grande ng cabooses to be able to suggest a number or series, but there are photos on Google that show several of these short cabooses with numbers in the 0500 series.

Todd Sullivan

 
Scott H. Haycock
 

Schuyler,
 
Google 'D&RGW short caboose' and there is a picture gallery. Mostly models but some prototype photos. It looks like F&C makes a resin kit of this model; they may have decals.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 04/12/2021 12:18 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
 
 

I am going to be painting the attached caboose model for a friend.  I have three questions:

 

  1. Can anyone identify this model?  Original date of manufacture?  Importer? Maker?  The box shown with the caboose is evidently the original box, based on the “packing” being the same or very similar to the packing I’ve seen in Max Gray models I’ve bought in original packaging.  There are no markings on the model or on or in the box, other than the pencil notation on the end of the cover.  It’s a very nice model, very well built and seems to be accurate.

  2. The owner of the model has requested I paint it using P-B-L “Rio Grande Freight Car Color.”  If I am not mistaken, that is an acrylic paint, and I am very much disinclined to use an acrylic paint (N.B.: don’t bother to try to tell me that they are easy to use, just as good, clearly the right color or any of that.  Maybe they are in the right hands, but based on my experiences, my hands are not the right hands.  I stick to lacquers, period.)  So are there recommendations among all the experts on this list for a good color in a lacquer paint?  Preferably Scalecoat?

  3. Decals?

 

TIA

 

Schuyler
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