C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
A C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers -
Renovo PA 1952
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Charles Greene
Now that's rich Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:
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pennsylvania1954
Hi Chuck--Almost certainly an H9s with that tender. By 1952 there were only H9s and H10s classes.
-- Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL |
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Charles Greene
Steve, Yeah, I noticed the tender, at least from the angle of the photo, seems to have a fairly small coal space. I looked at the shots I have in a couple of books and didn't find such a tender on an H-class engine. I've seen at least one H at the museum at Strasburg, PA. Don't remember which subclass it is. Wonder if shop forces at the RR across the road would add it to their to-do list! Would be a reasonably-sized engine to pull those passenger trains....or maybe the E6s (?). -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:07 PM pennsylvania1954 <stevehprr@...> wrote: Hi Chuck--Almost certainly an H9s with that tender. By 1952 there were only H9s and H10s classes. |
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Interesting trucks under the flat car.
Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 09:28 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Interesting trucks under the flat car.They are express trucks. These were express cars, equipped for passenger service. If you enlarge the pic and look closely under the end of the hopper, you can see the steam line connector on the flatcar... Dennis Storzek |
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Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
Gentlemen:
If you Google “The Story of Milk Transportation By Rail” – Rasin River Models, you will find a nice article on the Milk Industry and the railcars. Originally published in the DISPATCH of The National Association of S-Gaugers, Vol. XIII No. 1 January/February 1990.
Jeff Gray
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 1:55 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 09:28 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
They are express trucks. These were express cars, equipped for passenger service. If you enlarge the pic and look closely under the end of the hopper, you can see the steam line connector on the flatcar...
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Kenneth Montero
Check the Borden milk cars. They and other milk cars had such trucks.
Ken Montero
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Mark Rossiter
All: I am surprised that there have not been more comments on the milk car shown in the referenced photo. This is a National Car Company milk car. It was somewhat revolutionary at the time and was an example of a relatively early application of the ‘intermodal’ concept. The tanks were detachable for placement on trucks for local delivery. There were several versions of this car. Overland imported models of these cars and Funaro and Camerlengo did them in resin as well.
For more information on the prototype and the models, look here: http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/MilkTrains/NX_1487.htm
Mark Rossiter
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robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Greene" <greenec1144@...> To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:10:51 PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Now that's *rich* Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote: Hi List Members, -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob |
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Schuyler Larrabee
That's pretty likely. There ARE cows in Penna., you know.
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Schuyler -----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:27 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Greene" <greenec1144@...> To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:10:51 PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Now that's *rich* Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote: Hi List Members, -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob |
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Schleigh Mike
Yes, Schuyler, there are cows in Penna. but not many in that neighborhood. There may have been shipping sources further west and north in McKean and Potter Counties but I have never heard of it producing large bulk shipments. Port Allegany and Eldred on the Buffalo Line are possibilities but any traffic coming to Renovo via the old P&E from Erie seems very unlikely although there were milk stations over there closer to that town. Did any ship that far away to the east??? Good question to pursue if interested. Mike Schleigh in Grove City also found in Penna.
On Thursday, June 17, 2021, 11:10:32 AM EDT, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
That's pretty likely. There ARE cows in Penna., you know. Schuyler -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:27 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Greene" <greenec1144@...> To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:10:51 PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Now that's *rich* Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote: > Hi List Members, > > A C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - > Renovo PA 1952 > > https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/collection/p16002coll26/id/ > 4012 > > Enjoy! > > Claus Schlund > > > > > -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob |
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Schuyler Larrabee
I admit to being a bit smartass about my reply, but I do know that the reach of the milk business for consumption in NYC was very, very extensive. Port Allegany and Eldred are admittedly a stretch, but maybe at times a source, or the “milk stations over there closer to that town” could be the origin of milk to be shipped east.
Also, not EVERY car of milk went to NYC. I know (but cannot give you documentation now) that some milk traffic went to Phila, Penna., and some in New Jersey.
I do find that https://www.dairyfoods.com/directories/7376-dairy-plants-usa shows there are, today, 42 milk plants in Penna, and suggest that a look through the 43 plants’ locations may well suggest a location that would have been in business in the era of the photo that started all this.
https://extension.psu.edu/pennsylvania-dairy-plant-and-raw-milk-directory which would not come up the first three times I tried it, might also provide some more insight.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schleigh Mike via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 11:24 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952
Yes, Schuyler, there are cows in Penna. but not many in that neighborhood.
There may have been shipping sources further west and north in McKean and Potter Counties but I have never heard of it producing large bulk shipments. Port Allegany and Eldred on the Buffalo Line are possibilities but any traffic coming to Renovo via the old P&E from Erie seems very unlikely although there were milk stations over there closer to that town. Did any ship that far away to the east??? Good question to pursue if interested.
Mike Schleigh in Grove City also found in Penna.
On Thursday, June 17, 2021, 11:10:32 AM EDT, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
That's pretty likely. There ARE cows in Penna., you know. |
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robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
Yeah, but not around Renovo.
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There's very little around Renovo, other than trees. A 19th century travel book called the stretch of the then Philadelphia and Erie rom Renovo westward to Ridgway "a seventy five mile tunnel through the trees" ----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...> To: "main" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 11:10:20 AM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 That's pretty likely. There ARE cows in Penna., you know. Schuyler -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:27 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Greene" <greenec1144@...> To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:10:51 PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Now that's *rich* Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote: Hi List Members, -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob |
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Don Burn
By 1952 a number of the containers for NX flat cars had transitioned from milk. Some handled bulk orange juice and others went to Borden Chemicals for transport of various products of theirs.
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Don Burn -----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 12:17 PM To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Yeah, but not around Renovo. There's very little around Renovo, other than trees. A 19th century travel book called the stretch of the then Philadelphia and Erie rom Renovo westward to Ridgway "a seventy five mile tunnel through the trees" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...> To: "main" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 11:10:20 AM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 That's pretty likely. There ARE cows in Penna., you know. Schuyler -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:27 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Greene" <greenec1144@...> To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Group Moderators" <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:10:51 PM Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 Now that's *rich* Pennsy railroading! Which H-subclass on the point, -8? -Chuck On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 4:39 PM Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote: Hi List Members, -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob |
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Perhaps it was no longer in raw milk service? Freight cars often have interesting experiences later in life... :-) On 6/10/2021 7:27 PM, robert netzlof wrote: I live not far from Renovo and I'm having trouble understanding what a milk tank car would be doing there. Perhaps it was merely passing through on its way to some place where there were cows? A C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952 https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/collection/p16002coll26/id/4012 Enjoy! Claus Schlund --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts 
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
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Hi everyone,
For those interested in Renovo and milk traffic, you might want to look
over the PRR document linked below...
There is detailed info on the consists that the PRR operated to/from the
New York city area. Start by searching on the word 'milk' on the document, you
may be surprised what you find.
Among others, there is a train carrying milk cars called out as train RJ-10
- as far as I know, the R stood for Renovo, and the J stood for Jersey City -
altho it might have stood for Jamaica, in which case the train would have
traveled thru Penn Station NY and then been handed off to the LIRR to forward to
Jamaica, NY. But in any case, both Jersey City NJ and Jamaica NY were New
York city area delivery points for milk cars.
The line thru Renovo also served Buffalo NY, did it not? Perhaps local
trains brought milk from western NY state to Renovo, and REnovo then served
as the consolidation point for a dedicated (or perhaps more focused) train to
forward milk cars to Harrisburg and finally onward to the New York city
area.
Claus Schlund
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How far is Renovo from Hershey Pennsylvania? Lots of milk chocolate made there... On 6/17/2021 1:18 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
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Hi Don and List Members,
While true, I don't think the car in Renovo would have been handling
bulk orange juice...
Claus Schlund
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Peter Westphal
Lots of MILK potential on the PRR north or west of Renovo. Merrel-Soule co, absorbed by Borden in 1928 pioneered condensed milk and had processing at Arcade, NY (Buffalo Line) as well as Union City, PA (Erie Line). 26 Plants, but don't have locations yet. Borden got into the chemical business with the sticky stuff about 1948. Ever clean up dried spilled milk ? Elmer's (Elsie's spouse) was a leader in the Glue-all field. Don't know about factory changes specifically, but there were plenty of cheese and milk sites - not just woods. I recall seeing mention of carload from somewhere (in a 10% sample) going to Sheffield in Buffalo. Cream Cheese and Butter factory here is now luxury condos. Pete On 6/17/2021 1:43 PM, Claus Schlund
\(HGM\) wrote:
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