image of a bulk oil dealership


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
 
This image would makes for a nice inspiration for a model railroad, don't you think?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Scott H. Haycock
 

Great photo!
 
If you ignore the background, it already looks like a photo from a model railroad. Every thing is so neat and tidy- like a scene waiting to be super-detailed. 
 
Could this be a brand new facility? 
 
As to the barrels, could the be lined, and contain more viscous materials, like greases? 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/07/2021 2:09 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi List Members,
 
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
 
This image would makes for a nice inspiration for a model railroad, don't you think?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Tony Thompson
 

Claus Schlund wrote:

Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 

Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 

Tony Thompson



A Clemens
 

Here's another view of this industry.
Described as " Terminal No. 4 -St. John's -Portland, OR" with no definitive date.


Al

Virus-free. www.avast.com


On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 3:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:

Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 

Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 

Tony Thompson



robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>

I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
I have a book on oil refinery design (unfortunately concealed somewhere in The Dreaded Basement). It dates from pre-WW2 days, but how much before I don't recall. It might even have been published pre-WW1. (I got it in the mid 1960s from the local Goodwill store where it was in company with several texts and references in the civil and mechanical engineering area, apparently all contributed by the estate of a deceased engineer once employed in the petroleum refining business.)

One of the chapters was devoted to the design of facilities for manufacturing, filling, and repairing wooden barrels for use in distributing oil products. One part that sticks in my mind is the use of glue to line the barrels after they had been coopered. The general idea was to pour a quantity of hot glue into the barrel, plug the bung, then roll the barrel about on the floor to distribute the glue all over the interior followed by propping the barrel up over a pan to allow excess glue to drain out through the bung hole.

Recall that in the late 19th Century, there were barrel cars, some of which were owned and operated by Union Tank Line to transport empty barrels back to the refineries for re-use. Of course, those could have been steel barrels, if there were steel barrels in the late 19th Century.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


Scott H. Haycock
 

Good point Tony!
 
I looked around this photo, and I think we're looking at a trans-loading facility for a developing oil field. And everything else is a storage depot and maintenance  facility. The whole area is denuded, thus the developing, and there are a lot of pipe loads in those gons in the background. There are also several tank car loading platforms between the tank rows.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/07/2021 4:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 
 
Tony Thompson
 


Dave Parker
 

The second photo clearly indicates that it is a pier in Portland, OR.  To me, the large tanks look like so many other "tank farms" (terminals) where refined petroleum products were brought in by boat, and sent out in tank cars. 

The trucks on the tank car (early Andrews?) and the assortment of parked vehicles suggest a date of 1930 or thereabouts (IMO).
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thinking about this, I doubt there would have been any issue with petroleum products being shipped in barrels. But when industry in general switched from barrels to steel drums, the petroleum industry could have led the way. They might have even led the development.

More here: https://www.skolnik.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-the-55-gallon-drum/

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 08/07/2021 4:35 PM robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...> wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>

I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
I have a book on oil refinery design (unfortunately concealed somewhere in The Dreaded Basement). It dates from pre-WW2 days, but how much before I don't recall. It might even have been published pre-WW1. (I got it in the mid 1960s from the local Goodwill store where it was in company with several texts and references in the civil and mechanical engineering area, apparently all contributed by the estate of a deceased engineer once employed in the petroleum refining business.)

One of the chapters was devoted to the design of facilities for manufacturing, filling, and repairing wooden barrels for use in distributing oil products. One part that sticks in my mind is the use of glue to line the barrels after they had been coopered. The general idea was to pour a quantity of hot glue into the barrel, plug the bung, then roll the barrel about on the floor to distribute the glue all over the interior followed by propping the barrel up over a pan to allow excess glue to drain out through the bung hole.

Recall that in the late 19th Century, there were barrel cars, some of which were owned and operated by Union Tank Line to transport empty barrels back to the refineries for re-use. Of course, those could have been steel barrels, if there were steel barrels in the late 19th Century.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob



Richard Townsend
 

I'm skeptical about this. I could be wrong, but I don't think Oregon has ever had any oil fields of any size, especially in Portland. As for the denuded landscape, that's what Oregon was about for a long time: take all the trees. And this is in Portland, which even then was a sizeable city. The "pipe loads" look to me to be logs and cut lumber. My guess, and it is a guess, is that this facility, which I believe was riverside, received oil from tankers that have come up the Columbia River. Then the oil is loaded into tank cars for distribution around the state.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

Good point Tony!
 
I looked around this photo, and I think we're looking at a trans-loading facility for a developing oil field. And everything else is a storage depot and maintenance  facility. The whole area is denuded, thus the developing, and there are a lot of pipe loads in those gons in the background. There are also several tank car loading platforms between the tank rows.
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 
 
Tony Thompson
 


Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi everyone,
 
Thanks everyone for the insights - I stand enlightened!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Scott H. Haycock
 

 
The large structure in the second photo looks like a grain export facility. If no nearby oil field, could it be an oil pipeline terminal?
 
This is fun!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/07/2021 4:58 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:
 
 
I'm skeptical about this. I could be wrong, but I don't think Oregon has ever had any oil fields of any size, especially in Portland. As for the denuded landscape, that's what Oregon was about for a long time: take all the trees. And this is in Portland, which even then was a sizeable city. The "pipe loads" look to me to be logs and cut lumber. My guess, and it is a guess, is that this facility, which I believe was riverside, received oil from tankers that have come up the Columbia River. Then the oil is loaded into tank cars for distribution around the state.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

Good point Tony!
 
I looked around this photo, and I think we're looking at a trans-loading facility for a developing oil field. And everything else is a storage depot and maintenance  facility. The whole area is denuded, thus the developing, and there are a lot of pipe loads in those gons in the background. There are also several tank car loading platforms between the tank rows.
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Richard Townsend
 

You're right about the grain export facility. There still is a great deal of grain shipped out of Portland by sea. While there currently is a pipeline that comes down to Portland from the refineries on Puget Sound, I don't think it existed that long ago. Could be wrong, though.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

 
The large structure in the second photo looks like a grain export facility. If no nearby oil field, could it be an oil pipeline terminal?
 
This is fun!
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:58 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:
 
 
I'm skeptical about this. I could be wrong, but I don't think Oregon has ever had any oil fields of any size, especially in Portland. As for the denuded landscape, that's what Oregon was about for a long time: take all the trees. And this is in Portland, which even then was a sizeable city. The "pipe loads" look to me to be logs and cut lumber. My guess, and it is a guess, is that this facility, which I believe was riverside, received oil from tankers that have come up the Columbia River. Then the oil is loaded into tank cars for distribution around the state.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

Good point Tony!
 
I looked around this photo, and I think we're looking at a trans-loading facility for a developing oil field. And everything else is a storage depot and maintenance  facility. The whole area is denuded, thus the developing, and there are a lot of pipe loads in those gons in the background. There are also several tank car loading platforms between the tank rows.
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Scott H. Haycock
 

Add all of this together, and I think we're looking at two photos taken for posterity. These are records of a new facility built to transload crude to ships, from a pipeline. This could even be the first of its kind in this area. 
 
Another thread to pull- I'll go with this being on the north side of the river. That grain terminal could still be there. I don't know the area. Anybody? 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/07/2021 5:32 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:
 
 
You're right about the grain export facility. There still is a great deal of grain shipped out of Portland by sea. While there currently is a pipeline that comes down to Portland from the refineries on Puget Sound, I don't think it existed that long ago. Could be wrong, though.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

 
The large structure in the second photo looks like a grain export facility. If no nearby oil field, could it be an oil pipeline terminal?
 
This is fun!
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:58 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:
 
 
I'm skeptical about this. I could be wrong, but I don't think Oregon has ever had any oil fields of any size, especially in Portland. As for the denuded landscape, that's what Oregon was about for a long time: take all the trees. And this is in Portland, which even then was a sizeable city. The "pipe loads" look to me to be logs and cut lumber. My guess, and it is a guess, is that this facility, which I believe was riverside, received oil from tankers that have come up the Columbia River. Then the oil is loaded into tank cars for distribution around the state.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image of a bulk oil dealership

Good point Tony!
 
I looked around this photo, and I think we're looking at a trans-loading facility for a developing oil field. And everything else is a storage depot and maintenance  facility. The whole area is denuded, thus the developing, and there are a lot of pipe loads in those gons in the background. There are also several tank car loading platforms between the tank rows.
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent
On 08/07/2021 4:13 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
Claus Schlund wrote:
Nice image of a bulk oil dealership. Served by - you guessed it - steam era freight cars. Any thoughts regarding the date? The tank car, rail mounted crane, and the steel gons in the ditant background make me think 1920.
 
I note the use of wooden barrels at the oil dealership - I've never seen this before. Instead I always see steel barrels (drums?) even in the pre-1920 era.
 
Claus, what makes you think it’s a bulk oil dealership? The tanks are awfully big compared to the many, many photos I have seen of such dealerships in the steam era. The numerous wood barrels would also seem odd in that context. 
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 


Tony Thompson
 

Al Clemens wrote:

Here's another view of this industry.
Described as " Terminal No. 4 -St. John's -Portland, OR" with no definitive date.


This certainly does not look like a bulk oil facility to me. BTW, St. Johns is a Portland neighborhood, right at the confluence of the Willamette and the Columbia, on the east bank of the Willamette. One of my sons lives in the adjoins neighborhood.

Tony Thompson



Dave Parker
 

If one accepts the premise that the photos date to 1930 (+/-) then I would offer these nuggets:

1921 Oildom (April):  tabulation of refineries by state:  zero in OR
1948 USDI report on refinery production:  Portland had one very modest plant, dedicated to asphalt production
1925 Atlas of Traffic Maps (La Salle University), map of US pipelines:  zero in OR and WA (but several in CA)

Simplest explanation still seems to be a petroleum receiving terminal, with subsequent distribution by rail.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Jack Mullen
 

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 04:55 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
This certainly does not look like a bulk oil facility to me. BTW, St. Johns is a Portland neighborhood, right at the confluence of the Willamette and the Columbia, on the east bank of the Willamette.
Tony, you beat me to that, but I'll add that Google maps shows a Terminal 4 on the Willamette side of St. Johns, and there's a large elevator and a few oil tanks visible in the area.
  Terminal 4
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LbqKB7XYtKSd1W3S7
I agree that the facility in the original photo is most likely a ship-to-rail oil terminal. Rail would be uncompetitive with coastal tankers California to Portland. I don't know what's in the barrels though.
Jack Mullen


A Clemens
 

Here's a Google link.

The Willamette River is on the left/ the old piers were on the Willamette.
You can still see some of the old stuff. An off-loading pier can also be seen.

Al

Virus-free. www.avast.com


On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:11 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If one accepts the premise that the photos date to 1930 (+/-) then I would offer these nuggets:

1921 Oildom (April):  tabulation of refineries by state:  zero in OR
1948 USDI report on refinery production:  Portland had one very modest plant, dedicated to asphalt production
1925 Atlas of Traffic Maps (La Salle University), map of US pipelines:  zero in OR and WA (but several in CA)

Simplest explanation still seems to be a petroleum receiving terminal, with subsequent distribution by rail.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Scott H. Haycock
 

Here's what I've gleaned so far, This from Wikipedia:
Oregon lacks any refining capacity and imports all of its petroleum products. Washington’s refineries supply upwards of 90 percent of Oregon’s petroleum product [5] by way of the  Olympic Pipeline and barge. Refineries in California and Utah contribute the remainder. Distribution through Oregon largely originates at Portland terminals that distribute product via tanker, truck, Columbia River barge service and the  Kinder Morgan Energy Partners pipeline. The pipeline is a quasi-extension of the Olympic Pipeline that travels 115 miles from Portland to Eugene. On average, the Kinder Morgan pipeline moves 42,000 barrels of refined product per day. [6]
 
The Olympic pipeline reference link page is gone.  Google takes me to the Bellingham Explosion of 1999.  I think that was a natural gas pipeline.
 
Any research of the history of this pipeline that I've done so far goes nowhere. I can't find an answer to this question: When was this pipeline built?
 
I'm hungry! More later?

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 08/07/2021 7:10 PM A Clemens <aclmns42@...> wrote:
 
 
Here's a Google link.
 
The Willamette River is on the left/ the old piers were on the Willamette.
You can still see some of the old stuff. An off-loading pier can also be seen.
 
Al

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:11 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If one accepts the premise that the photos date to 1930 (+/-) then I would offer these nuggets:

1921 Oildom (April):  tabulation of refineries by state:  zero in OR
1948 USDI report on refinery production:  Portland had one very modest plant, dedicated to asphalt production
1925 Atlas of Traffic Maps (La Salle University), map of US pipelines:  zero in OR and WA (but several in CA)

Simplest explanation still seems to be a petroleum receiving terminal, with subsequent distribution by rail.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

 

 


Scott H. Haycock
 

From Wikipedia:
 
 
Oregon lacks any refining capacity and imports all of its petroleum products. Washington’s refineries supply upwards of 90 percent of Oregon’s petroleum product [5] by way of the  Olympic Pipeline and barge. Refineries in California and Utah contribute the remainder. Distribution through Oregon largely originates at Portland terminals that distribute product via tanker, truck, Columbia River barge service and the  Kinder Morgan Energy Partners pipeline. The pipeline is a quasi-extension of the Olympic Pipeline that travels 115 miles from Portland to Eugene. On average, the Kinder Morgan pipeline moves 42,000 barrels of refined product per day. [6]
 
 
 
 
 
 
The Olympic pipeline link leads to a deleted page.  Google takes me to the Bellingham Explosion of 1999.  I think that was a natural gas pipeline.
 
Any research of the history of this pipeline that I've done so far goes nowhere. I can't find an answer to this question: When was this pipeline built?
 
I'm hungry! More later?
 
Scott Haycock

Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 08/07/2021 7:10 PM A Clemens <aclmns42@...> wrote:
 
 
Here's a Google link.
 
The Willamette River is on the left/ the old piers were on the Willamette.
You can still see some of the old stuff. An off-loading pier can also be seen.
 
Al

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 5:11 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If one accepts the premise that the photos date to 1930 (+/-) then I would offer these nuggets:

1921 Oildom (April):  tabulation of refineries by state:  zero in OR
1948 USDI report on refinery production:  Portland had one very modest plant, dedicated to asphalt production
1925 Atlas of Traffic Maps (La Salle University), map of US pipelines:  zero in OR and WA (but several in CA)

Simplest explanation still seems to be a petroleum receiving terminal, with subsequent distribution by rail.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

 

 


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thinking about this while eating, I'm thinking this may be an marine offload facility after all. If this is so, that makes this a refined petroleum storage facility, not a crude oil distribution point on a pipeline.
 
In the 1st photo, we see loading platforms for gravity loading of steam-era-tank cars. I've seen these before for loading crude oil, but would more volatile products like gasoline or diesel fuel be loaded into tank cars this way?

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent