NYC Post-war PS-1 box car paint


Tony Thompson
 

I know that NYC orders of PS-1 box cars circa 1951 were painted with black ends (such as cars 170500–171499). Is that true also for the earlier PS-1 cars they ordered, such as 167000–167999, built in 1948, or were those earlier cars all BCR? How about roofs? I have poked around on the web and not found helpful info. Any advice appreciated.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
"I know that NYC orders of PS-1 box cars circa 1951 were painted with black ends (such as cars 170500–171499). Is that true also for the earlier PS-1 cars they ordered, such as 167000–167999, built in 1948, or were those earlier cars all BCR? How about roofs? I have poked around on the web and not found helpful info. Any advice appreciated."

Data point: NYC 169554, Lot 798-B built 7-50, Lowell MA, c. July 1965 (Leroy Dozier photo)
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc169554n04.jpg 


Ben Hom


Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
"I know that NYC orders of PS-1 box cars circa 1951 were painted with black ends (such as cars 170500–171499). Is that true also for the earlier PS-1 cars they ordered, such as 167000–167999, built in 1948, or were those earlier cars all BCR? How about roofs? I have poked around on the web and not found helpful info. Any advice appreciated."


Data point: NYC 169554, Lot 798-B built 7-50, Lowell MA, c. July 1965 (Leroy Dozier photo)
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc169554n04.jpg  


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 


Tony

I think both ends and roof were black.

Tim O'Connor


On 8/23/2021 4:51 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Tony Thompson wrote:
"I know that NYC orders of PS-1 box cars circa 1951 were painted with black ends (such as cars 170500–171499). Is that true also for the earlier PS-1 cars they ordered, such as 167000–167999, built in 1948, or were those earlier cars all BCR? How about roofs? I have poked around on the web and not found helpful info. Any advice appreciated."

Data point: NYC 169554, Lot 798-B built 7-50, Lowell MA, c. July 1965 (Leroy Dozier photo)
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc169554n04.jpg 


Ben Hom 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I think both ends and roof were black.


Good photo, Tim, thanks! But this is the mid-1950s lettering, not the 1950 scheme when the car was built, so presumably a repaint. Do we know how they were ORIGINALLY painted?

Tony Thompson



Allan Smith
 


The picture on page 64 of P-S Freight Cars 1900-1960 show NYC 170705 with Black Ends


Al Smith
Sonora Ca

On Monday, August 23, 2021, 07:21:35 PM PDT, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Tim O'Connor wrote:

I think both ends and roof were black.


Good photo, Tim, thanks! But this is the mid-1950s lettering, not the 1950 scheme when the car was built, so presumably a repaint. Do we know how they were ORIGINALLY painted?

Tony Thompson



Scott
 


Ed Hawkins
 



On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:41 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

I know that NYC orders of PS-1 box cars circa 1951 were painted with black ends (such as cars 170500–171499). Is that true also for the earlier PS-1 cars they ordered, such as 167000–167999, built in 1948, or were those earlier cars all BCR? How about roofs? I have poked around on the web and not found helpful info. Any advice appreciated.

Tony,
As Tony notes, there have been sufficient photos located and documentation to confirm NYC PS-1s built in 1950 to 1952 came with black car cement on the ends and roof, but unfortunately this cannot be said with 100% certainty of the 1948-built PS-1s, NYC 167000-167999, Lot 765-B.

Prior to Kadee’s release of the model, considerable research had been made to determine the colors of the ends & roof. This included searching for a good photo of a relatively-new car (preferably color), locating the paint specs, and coordinating with Jeff English. Jeff did his best by checking available NYCHS documentation, but no joy. It came down to determining what was thought to be the “most-likely” scenario. 

The most-likely scenario was based on known first-source information that in 1948 NYC purchased box cars from ACF (Lot 764-B, 166000-166999) & Greenville Steel Car Co. (Lot 763-B, 165000-165999). The original paint specs for both series specified these cars received freight car brown ends and black car cement applied to the roof. Good photos of 164000-164999 Lot 759-B cars built by DSI in late 1947 also led to the same conclusion of freight car brown ends & black roof.

Regarding NYC box car roofs, ACF bills of materials specify that without exception black car cement was used on four lot numbers of box & auto cars built from 1945-1948. It has also been confirmed that a number of PS-1s built in 1947-1948 did come with freight car red/brown ends instead of them all having ends coated with black car cement.

Based on the above factors It was therefore concluded that for the Kadee NYC Lot 765-B model freight car brown ends was more likely than black car cement. Still, it has not been confirmed with certainty one way or the other.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

I provided two photos - You are correct the Ebay photo shows a repainted car, although I have noticed
that many repainted cars did not receive repainted roofs.

But the first of the photos showed a brand new NYC PS-1 in 1948. This was the photo that looks very
much like a black painted end to me. I've cropped it, and zoomed in, and attached it here.

Pullman Standard loved black ends, I don't know why. For example the Southern Pacific had no red
box cars with black ends... until they ordered some 50 foot PS-1's! :-D

Tim O'Connor


On 8/23/2021 10:21 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:

I think both ends and roof were black.


Good photo, Tim, thanks! But this is the mid-1950s lettering, not the 1950 scheme when the car was built, so presumably a repaint. Do we know how they were ORIGINALLY painted?

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Todd Sullivan
 

Tim & others,

FWIW, I tend to trust Kadee on their painting and lettering.  I looked up NYC 40ft PS-1s on their website, and the 170000 and 180000 series cars, built in 1951 and 1952, respectively, had black ends and roof.  Models of earlier PS-1 series were all freight car brown.

Let the dissent begin!

Todd Sullivan


Allan Smith
 

Page 33 of Freight Equipment of the NYC Volume 1 has a photo of 169074 with black roof and ends . photo 10-20-1951

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Tuesday, August 24, 2021, 01:15:13 PM PDT, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Tim & others,

FWIW, I tend to trust Kadee on their painting and lettering.  I looked up NYC 40ft PS-1s on their website, and the 170000 and 180000 series cars, built in 1951 and 1952, respectively, had black ends and roof.  Models of earlier PS-1 series were all freight car brown.

Let the dissent begin!

Todd Sullivan


Tim O'Connor
 

Todd

Ha, well, trust, but verify. I know for a fact that Kadee has made mistakes. I don't hold it against
them. We all learn as we go along, and Kadee almost never -repeats- a mistake once it has been
identified.

Tim O'Connor


On 8/24/2021 4:15 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Tim & others,

FWIW, I tend to trust Kadee on their painting and lettering.  I looked up NYC 40ft PS-1s on their website, and the 170000 and 180000 series cars, built in 1951 and 1952, respectively, had black ends and roof.  Models of earlier PS-1 series were all freight car brown.

Let the dissent begin!

Todd Sullivan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts