Hello,

I've been looking for photos of NC&StL and SP&S 41' flatcar ends but I couldn't find any. I've been working on the Tichy 41' flatcar kit with plans of turning it into an SP&S prototype. Issue is that I don't have any good photos of what the ends of these cars look like (especially for coupler cuts and brake hoses). Richard Hendrickson's photos and models in Prototype Modeler June 1993 issue are too hard to tell how the cuts and hoses are placed other than a photo of a StLSW car which doesn't seem close to how the ends appear for NC&StL and SP&S's photos. Photos of either or both the NC&StL and SP&S prototypes would be great.

Thanks, Ray

On 10/13/2021 8:16 PM, Ray Carson via groups.io wrote:

Hello,

I've been looking for photos of NC&StL and SP&S 41' flatcar ends but I couldn't find any. I've been working on the Tichy 41' flatcar kit with plans of turning it into an SP&S prototype. Issue is that I don't have any good photos of what the ends of these cars look like (especially for coupler cuts and brake hoses). Richard Hendrickson's photos and models in Prototype Modeler June 1993 issue are too hard to tell how the cuts and hoses are placed other than a photo of a StLSW car which doesn't seem close to how the ends appear for NC&StL and SP&S's photos. Photos of either or both the NC&StL and SP&S prototypes would be great.

Thanks, Ray

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

I apologize for bumping an old thread and responding late. Thank you everyone for the photos both in this thread and the ones that PMed me information.

Anyway regarding the SP&S car, I've done work with the cut bars. They aren't 100% accurate but they're pretty good as is using reference photos.

Nice work Ray.  What are you doing for decals?

Colin Meikle

Colin,

I bought Tichy flatcar decals months ago. I was planning on using those. I personally haven't got around to using any Tichy decals yet but I've read that they're thick? I don't think that'll be a concern though.

Another great project with an inexpensive plastic kit as the base for me. The 1954 photo of one of the SP&S flat cars in San Diego with a lumber load on Andrews trucks is enough justification for me. I won't look too closely as it may have been routed down the GN inside gateway to the WP and ATSF.  I have an Owl Mountain lumber load kit that would do nicely. 

 I didn't seen the SP&S flat car decals on the K4 site. Will require some more research to get the right size for the flat car side sill. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Ken,

The photo I have of one of the SP&S flat cars has plain ol' RR Roman lettering, so I think you can get creative and use the dim data for one of the other RR's cars from the Champ set, and find an appropriate size of RR Roman lettering for the initials and number.  Or, an SP&S boxcar decal set might provide that lettering.

Todd Sullivan

I found a new in the box Tichy 4021 flat car kit discounted to $8.00 at my Local Hobby Shop. I couldn't pass that up. There is a PDF on the SP&S website that indicates these were in service until 1968. Would they still have had K type break gear that late? Were they in interchange service? One of the photos was of an ex-Oregon Electric flat car SP&S 32307 in San Diego in 1954 but the underframe is shadowed and I cannot tell if it has AB or K brakes.  

If they were in interchange service would they have been modernized to use AB brakes by 1954 (my cut off date?)  If they were modernized with AB brakes what was the layout for the break gear. There are some tantalizing indications in some of the photos in this thread that the reservoir was mounted crosswise rather than in line with the frame. Does anyone have a diagram or picture of either the prototype or a model with the AB layout to share.  

Ray Carson, did your PM sources give you any information on the brakes that could be shared. 

Thanks
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Ken,

One of the sources did send photos of SP&S cars with AB brakes on them. But I don't know if he wants me to upload them here. The photos are from the SP&S Color Guide.

you can just see the top bits of the AB valve and the release rod
in this 1954 view... looks pretty conventional to me

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

One last question to put to this group. Were 1940-50's SP&S flat cars painted black (like NP?) or a dark freight car red?  Not and SP&S expert/modeler although I have lived in Spokane, Portland and Seattle at various times in my life.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Ken,

All the SP&S flatcars (and NP's, too) I ever saw in person or photos were painted black.

Todd Sullivan

Ken

In looking at the SP&S Color Guide, it appears that revenue flat cars, including this series, were black.  Flats in MOW service were boxcar red.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm
The Olympic Peninsula Branch
https://olympicpeninsulabranch.blogspot.com/

After a lot of frustration with the decal situation for this car, I finally broke down and ordered the Champ set through eBay if only because it has most of the dimensional lettering I really need.  Apparently there was no SP&S reporting marks and number set on the decal.  Also it I understand the Champ set lacks reweigh dates. I have used a K4 SP&S boxcar set for now but this results in an oversize "SP&S". The car number was however the correct size.  The boxcar set lacks number to make up accurate Load Limit and Light Weight numbers and reweigh/repack dates and locations. I tried using lettering pieced together from my fairly extensive SP collection that includes T&NO and a few other older lines with an ampersand in the RR abbreviation but nothing matched the size needed for the flat car sill.  I would love a recommendation for a smaller SP&S RR reporting abbreviation.

Note I have modified the car for an AB airbrake upgrade to fit my modeling period.  I am only a semi-prototype modeler as I do not try to replicate all of the piping. I have a narrow Owl Mountain lumber load on hand to add some additional weight to the car. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Ken -

Nice work on the SP&S flat.  I have two of these models built, and want to letter them SP&S as well.  I thought through the decal options you discussed without buying any, and decided that perhaps the  best approach is to use Microscale's 1/8" size from their No. 90001 Railroad Roman Letters and Numbers - White set.  I think the prototype lettering size for the initials and number on these flat cars was 10", so 1/8" in HO should be close.  Once I do the decalling -perhaps next week - I will post photos and comments.  Many thanks, however, for your leading edge research, as it has confirmed some suspicions I had about lettering sizes from boxcar decal sets.

Todd Sullivan