[Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question


Ken Adams
 

I have used Tamiya TS-80 Flat Clear with reasonable success. None of the spray or brush on flat coats really give me the dead flat look of oxidized 10 year old paint. It is expensive as a can rarely lasts more than 4-5 HO projects. The product is made in Japan and there can be supply issues. 

On freight cars and structures, I have found dry brushing Bragdon light tan or light grey weathering powder over the flat clear coat after it dries gives a more real world flatness to the model.  A quick check shows Bragdon Enterprises still in business. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Dave Boss
 

Hi Eric
         Thanks. I agree with you on this. I have used powders as well without a final seal. The dull coat seems to have enough tooth to hold it on my models as well. Again well done

Dave

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 9:48 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Dave.

 

The airbrush is not used in additional weathering steps. Some cars might receive a wash before I apply Pan Pastels and the pencil highlights.

 

I do not seal the cars when the weathering is complete. The Pan Pastels stay in place. I find the flat coat offers more tooth on the model surface for the Pan Pastels to stick.

 

Over the years, I’ve packed several weathered models to transport and display at RPM events. I haven’t noticed any degradation of the Pan Pastel applications. When I had an operating layout, the models were used in regular operating sessions.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Boss
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:32 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Hi Eric

              Super weathering ! After air brushing the tint/flat coat,aside from the panpastles, and colored pencil work did you apply any more air brush weathering? Also did you seal the cars again with dull coat? Again very nice work.

 

Good day

Dave

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for your comments, Dave.

 

The airbrush is not used in additional weathering steps. Some cars might receive a wash before I apply Pan Pastels and the pencil highlights.

 

I do not seal the cars when the weathering is complete. The Pan Pastels stay in place. I find the flat coat offers more tooth on the model surface for the Pan Pastels to stick.

 

Over the years, I’ve packed several weathered models to transport and display at RPM events. I haven’t noticed any degradation of the Pan Pastel applications. When I had an operating layout, the models were used in regular operating sessions.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Boss
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:32 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Hi Eric

              Super weathering ! After air brushing the tint/flat coat,aside from the panpastles, and colored pencil work did you apply any more air brush weathering? Also did you seal the cars again with dull coat? Again very nice work.

 

Good day

Dave

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Dave Boss
 

Hi Eric
              Super weathering ! After air brushing the tint/flat coat,aside from the panpastles, and colored pencil work did you apply any more air brush weathering? Also did you seal the cars again with dull coat? Again very nice work.

Good day
Dave


On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

You can also use 300 or 600 grit sandpaper, which I have done to good effect as well to weather lettering.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


steve_wintner
 

Don't forget that brands like Tamiya, Mr. Hobby, Alclad, and Humbrol offer various model paints, which include some clear coats. I haven't used them (yet) but there should still be some choices once Rust-Oleum finishes killing Testors off. 

Elden, what grit did you use on the decals? I'd like to try that, i have an air eraser - did you use baking soda, or AluOxide grit?

Steve


Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, there is some price gouging online. I went back to Dullcote, but I don’t know how long that will be available. I’m stocking up enough to do around 35 cars, just in case.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

I found some Model Master clear flat acrylic (4636) through Amazon but it looks like the price has increased.

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I will say that they applied the standard of what lengths they would go to, based on how much $ they’d get in return.

 

Coiled Steel?  Brand new G41 gons

 

Auto parts?  Brand new, biggest and best box cars

 

Structural steel?  Any gon will do as long as the load doesn’t fall out

 

Hide service?  Last legs box cars

 

Offal?  The worst last legs gon everrrrrr

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

But, remember, they were The Standard Railroad of the World, so that must have been the right way to do it.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

But, remember, they were The Standard Railroad of the World, so that must have been the right way to do it.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Todd.  I spent years before getting that car right.

 

Your car looks great!  Love the rfoof and side weathering.  Looks the way I remember them (awful).

 

I grit-blasted the decals, before application, for several cars with lettering that was weathered differently from the rest of the car.  It worked really well.  Go slooooow.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 4:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Eric Hansmann
 

On 10/27/2021 11:10 AM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


While searching hobby shop web sites looking for Model Master Flat Clear, I read a note on one site that Rustoleum intends to divest itself of all hobby paints, and MM is just the latest casualty, following Floquil and Poly Scale. Scalecoat is struggling to keep up with direst orders, while many hobby shops aren’t stocking Scalecoat any longer. Tru Color seems to be doing well, and I think it may be the only organic solvent based hobby paint on the market before long.


Nelson Moyer




Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Nelson Moyer
 

While searching hobby shop web sites looking for Model Master Flat Clear, I read a note on one site that Rustoleum intends to divest itself of all hobby paints, and MM is just the latest casualty, following Floquil and Poly Scale. Scalecoat is struggling to keep up with direst orders, while many hobby shops aren’t stocking Scalecoat any longer. Tru Color seems to be doing well, and I think it may be the only organic solvent based hobby paint on the market before long.

 

Nelson Moyer


Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your note and the links to your blogs with examples of your techniques.  I will experiment with your techniques on that PRR X31, once I finish painting it (the roof and one side were all I got done).  I am saddened, too, by Testor's decimation of good modeling paint brands.  Krylon is available only in rattle cans, AFAIK.  I used it once decades ago for some project, and found it was OK but not superior, do I no longer use it.  The strong odor was one turn-off.

I've been focused on building a group of Proto87 Stores' Fast'n'Easy turnouts at a major junction on my layout.  They look great and can be made to operate well, but they take a while to build.  I have also been installing DCC sound decoders in some diesel switchers.  None has been easy (10 pounds in a 5 pound bag), so I'm a bit discouraged.  I think the solution is to remove the entire electronics package inside the body shell and rebuild the electronics with the decoder, keep alive and speaker.  The 'DCC ready' claims were probably made when all that people were doing was installing plain DCC decoders.

Well, thanks again for some interesting ideas.  When I finish the model, I  will post the result somewhere (Plastic Freight Cars list, probably).

Todd.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, 10:36:59 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Eric Hansmann
 

Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Tim O'Connor
 


Dennis that's outstanding and even more amazing that's it pad printed. Might be worthwhile
to buy a laser printer... 😁

Tim O'Connor


On 10/26/2021 5:56 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁
Accurail actually did something like this a number of years ago on a custom job for the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society. The prototype was a group of almost new hoppers the Soo bought second hand from the BRC. Since the paint was like new, they just painted over the lettering and re-stenciled them. Twenty years later, the original lettering was showing through.


While these were done by pad printing, the same steps could be done for art for "Ghost toner" decals. This artwork was done in Adobe Illustrator, but Corral Draw and others should have similar settings. The "fill" color was set at a transparency setting somewhat less than 100%, and Eric found a setting that gave a mottled effect. I think they turned out well.

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁
Accurail actually did something like this a number of years ago on a custom job for the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society. The prototype was a group of almost new hoppers the Soo bought second hand from the BRC. Since the paint was like new, they just painted over the lettering and re-stenciled them. Twenty years later, the original lettering was showing through.


While these were done by pad printing, the same steps could be done for art for "Ghost toner" decals. This artwork was done in Adobe Illustrator, but Corral Draw and others should have similar settings. The "fill" color was set at a transparency setting somewhat less than 100%, and Eric found a setting that gave a mottled effect. I think they turned out well.

Dennis Storzek


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Tim O'Connor
 


try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁


On 10/26/2021 4:11 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Todd Sullivan
 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan