Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955


George Eichelberger
 

From the SRHA archives, Hayne Shop files, I've attached the first of three-page of routing instructions for empty refrigerator cars for the Southern Rwy. in 1955. (I will forward or post Pgs 2 and 3 if there is any interest.)

While it is certainly refers to empty cars on the Southern, it would be very interesting to find/see similar documents for other roads, particularly the ACL, SAL, L&N, FEC and other eastern or southeastern roads. Is anyone aware of such documentation?

Ike


Steve SANDIFER
 

Yes, please

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 4:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 

From the SRHA archives, Hayne Shop files, I've attached the first of three-page of routing instructions for empty refrigerator cars for the Southern Rwy. in 1955. (I will forward or post Pgs 2 and 3 if there is any interest.)

While it is certainly refers to empty cars on the Southern, it would be very interesting to find/see similar documents for other roads, particularly the ACL, SAL, L&N, FEC and other eastern or southeastern roads. Is anyone aware of such documentation?

Ike


Scott H. Haycock
 

I'd like to see the rest.

Thanks, George

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 11/07/2021 3:39 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


From the SRHA archives, Hayne Shop files, I've attached the first of three-page of routing instructions for empty refrigerator cars for the Southern Rwy. in 1955. (I will forward or post Pgs 2 and 3 if there is any interest.)

While it is certainly refers to empty cars on the Southern, it would be very interesting to find/see similar documents for other roads, particularly the ACL, SAL, L&N, FEC and other eastern or southeastern roads. Is anyone aware of such documentation?

Ike


Bill Keene
 

Please. Please. Yes. 
And Thank You.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 7, 2021, at 2:39 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

From the SRHA archives, Hayne Shop files, I've attached the first of three-page of routing instructions for empty refrigerator cars for the Southern Rwy. in 1955. (I will forward or post Pgs 2 and 3 if there is any interest.)

While it is certainly refers to empty cars on the Southern, it would be very interesting to find/see similar documents for other roads, particularly the ACL, SAL, L&N, FEC and other eastern or southeastern roads. Is anyone aware of such documentation?

Ike
<Pg 1.jpg>


Ken Adams
 

Ike

I am actually curious about the other 2 pages as I am wondering what the Southern instructions for the disposition of PFE cars released by the consignee were.  I used to work for PFE tracing missing interchange reports for mileage and per diem billing in the early 1970's. Reverse routing for Ice and Mechanical empties would be the norm in the early 1970's.  Railroads were supposed to contact PFE for permission before using for any reverse loading. They were not considered free roaming. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Jim Mischke
 



To promote reefer return, one backhaul from east to west was magazine bundles.  Care was taken to avoid any aromatic contamination.   A favorable carload rate was negotiated where three reefers = one boxcar load.

This was win-win.   The railroads got a backhaul with someone else's equipment instead of toting empties cross country.  The reefer owners got their cars back sooner on a more expedited basis.

So a model westbound coast-to-coast reefer string might be three or multiples of three.

Does this prototype observation and model idea make sense?



Scott H. Haycock
 

Ken, 

George was generous to send me those two pages. Here you go.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 11/09/2021 7:18 PM Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


Ike

I am actually curious about the other 2 pages as I am wondering what the Southern instructions for the disposition of PFE cars released by the consignee were.  I used to work for PFE tracing missing interchange reports for mileage and per diem billing in the early 1970's. Reverse routing for Ice and Mechanical empties would be the norm in the early 1970's.  Railroads were supposed to contact PFE for permission before using for any reverse loading. They were not considered free roaming. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Tony Thompson
 

This was win-win. The railroads got a backhaul with someone else's equipment instead of toting empties cross country. The reefer owners got their cars back sooner on a more expedited basis.

Remember that reefers were paid on a mileage basis, loaded or empty, so the reefer owners could not care less about westward loads. And in harvest time, they wanted their cars back without divergence to loading points, followed by delays getting the cars unloaded again and moved to produce areas. PFE people told me that they put up with some westward loading (less than 10 percent of westward cars) but would have been happy with all empties coming west.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Jim Betz
 

Jim Mischke,
  If you have an ice rack on your layout then using "a rack full" as some kind of
multiplier of reefers makes a lot of sense - the question then would be 'how
many rack loads to use'.  If you don't have an actual rack you can decide the
same kind of thing by using something related to the 'imaginary' rack(s) in
staging.  Another possibility would be to use "the size most convenient for the
industry where the reefers would be loaded/unloaded" ("size" is the number of
reefers in a cut).

  What I'm saying, rather clumsily, is that the reefers could be handled either in
complete trains at a time or in 'complete cuts' of reefers ... rather than as
oneseys and twoseys.  And they would go out/come in either on "the reefer
train" or at least on "the express/thru train".
  All of this is, of course, during the peak shipping season(s) for the products
that would be in reefers for the part of the country you are modeling.  For 
example, if your layout represents California then you can easily use reefers
for lettuce, fruits, and any other product that is going East to the fresh market(s).

                                                                   - hope this helps ... Jim in the PNW


Ken Adams
 

Unfamiliar with the definition of "record rights" in the Southern refrigerator empty routing. Does this refer to the previous load carrier routing?

For PFE, which town/location named Meridian would the Southern instructions refer to. Meridian, GA or Meridian, Miss..  

It is long after 1955 and the time frame of Steam Era list but, but when I worked on PFE missing interchange reports (1970-73), I recall there were per diem charges for refrigerator cars, possibly just mechanicals by this time. Interchange reporting was more important by then because of the per diem charges due the car owner. It was semi-automated with carriers exchanging physical tapes on a monthly basis.  SP IT had a program to identify missing interchange reports from the tapes and I received a printout to calculate the charges and follow up by letter with each of the carriers involved. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Steve SANDIFER
 

I can’t speak to 1955, but in the 40s and early 50s ATSF used SFRD reefers commonly for LCL service.  The largest percentage of LCL traffic was from east to west and was clean, dry, and usually came short of cubing or weighing out a car.  Reefers were perfect for this.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Mischke
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 



To promote reefer return, one backhaul from east to west was magazine bundles.  Care was taken to avoid any aromatic contamination.   A favorable carload rate was negotiated where three reefers = one boxcar load.

This was win-win.   The railroads got a backhaul with someone else's equipment instead of toting empties cross country.  The reefer owners got their cars back sooner on a more expedited basis.

So a model westbound coast-to-coast reefer string might be three or multiples of three.

Does this prototype observation and model idea make sense?


Richard Townsend
 

I have a document from the Colorado & Southern (CB&Q subsidiary) instructing agents to use reefers for LCL if the travel was in the direction of the reefer's home.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2021 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

I can’t speak to 1955, but in the 40s and early 50s ATSF used SFRD reefers commonly for LCL service.  The largest percentage of LCL traffic was from east to west and was clean, dry, and usually came short of cubing or weighing out a car.  Reefers were perfect for this.
 
 
J. Stephen Sandifer
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Mischke
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955
 


To promote reefer return, one backhaul from east to west was magazine bundles.  Care was taken to avoid any aromatic contamination.   A favorable carload rate was negotiated where three reefers = one boxcar load.

This was win-win.   The railroads got a backhaul with someone else's equipment instead of toting empties cross country.  The reefer owners got their cars back sooner on a more expedited basis.

So a model westbound coast-to-coast reefer string might be three or multiples of three.

Does this prototype observation and model idea make sense?


Tim O'Connor
 


I've seen many photos of cars at LCL freight houses and I can't recall ever seeing
a reefer amongst the box cars. Has anyone got photos showing this?

Tim O'Connor


On 11/10/2021 6:19 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:
I have a document from the Colorado & Southern (CB&Q subsidiary) instructing agents to use reefers for LCL if the travel was in the direction of the reefer's home.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2021 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

I can’t speak to 1955, but in the 40s and early 50s ATSF used SFRD reefers commonly for LCL service.  The largest percentage of LCL traffic was from east to west and was clean, dry, and usually came short of cubing or weighing out a car.  Reefers were perfect for this.


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Steve SANDIFER
 

Yes. Santa Fe even built freight houses at Kansas City and Chicago where one track was 7” lower than the others where box cars and reefers could be located. The reefer floor was 14” higher than the box car floor so instead of pushing a 2 wheel dolly up 14” (wow) you would push it 7” up to a reefer or 7” down to a box car.

I have a conductors record book from 1923 in Kansas. It shows 1088 cars in trains. 288 of those were reefers (21%) of which 43 were in LCL service. 11% of the cars in this record were LCL cars: 101 westbound and 21 eastbound.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 


I've seen many photos of cars at LCL freight houses and I can't recall ever seeing
a reefer amongst the box cars. Has anyone got photos showing this?

Tim O'Connor

On 11/10/2021 6:19 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:

I have a document from the Colorado & Southern (CB&Q subsidiary) instructing agents to use reefers for LCL if the travel was in the direction of the reefer's home.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2021 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

I can’t speak to 1955, but in the 40s and early 50s ATSF used SFRD reefers commonly for LCL service.  The largest percentage of LCL traffic was from east to west and was clean, dry, and usually came short of cubing or weighing out a car.  Reefers were perfect for this.

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


George Eichelberger
 

The primary (?) reason for the FGE/WFE relationship was the ability to “follow the harvest” between the NW and South through the year. I realize there are many crop types in SFRD and PFE territory but was the use of reefers in LCL service because they were less used (out west) at various times during the year? There are many records showing which cars were used for banana shipments out of the Port of Charleston (Southern ran one of the banana piers there) but PFE and SFRD (plus others) were seldom seen.

Ike


Tim O'Connor
 


Stephen, thanks! Would this mean that the SFRD reefers in LCL service were used
only between ATSF freight houses?

Tim O'Connor


On 11/10/2021 10:39 PM, Steve SANDIFER wrote:

Yes. Santa Fe even built freight houses at Kansas City and Chicago where one track was 7” lower than the others where box cars and reefers could be located. The reefer floor was 14” higher than the box car floor so instead of pushing a 2 wheel dolly up 14” (wow) you would push it 7” up to a reefer or 7” down to a box car.

I have a conductors record book from 1923 in Kansas. It shows 1088 cars in trains. 288 of those were reefers (21%) of which 43 were in LCL service. 11% of the cars in this record were LCL cars: 101 westbound and 21 eastbound.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 


I've seen many photos of cars at LCL freight houses and I can't recall ever seeing
a reefer amongst the box cars. Has anyone got photos showing this?

Tim O'Connor



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Bob Chaparro
 

Here is a link from the Trainweb site showing the large Baltimore & Ohio West 26th Street Freight Station and Storage Warehouse on July 7, 1951.  The location is between Eleventh and Twelfth Avenues in Manhattan.  There is a second B&O facility (West 24th Street Freight House) closer to the camera.  The structure to the left is the B&O and Republic Carloading Freight House.  The Republic section previously was operated by Seaboard Freight.

 

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/bo26aerial1951.jpg

 

Click on the image to enlarge it.

 

In between the freight houses are at least nine stub-end tracks.  Notice the three successive refrigerator cars (One Great Northern, one SFRD and one PFE) among all the boxcars.  Dunnage is visible in the open doorway of the SFRD car. There is another PFE car closer to the camera in the first fully visible row. 

 

This was not a refrigerated freight house as far as I know and there is no rooftop equipment to indicate refrigeration facilities.  The smaller freight house closer to the camera likewise does not have refrigerated facilities.  In all likelihood the cars were used to ship products that required some protection from heat or rapid temperature changes. (It’s July, remember.)   

 

It is not as likely these cars were shipped to New York with some of the other items occasionally carried in reefers heading west such as newspapers and magazines from East Coast publishers, tires, furniture and various clean items such as canned goods, candy and boxed items, or LCL shipments from mail order houses.

 

Lastly, as there were three driveways between the various tracks it is possible whatever was unloaded from the reefers never went into either freight house but was placed on trucks.

 

This building is still standing.  The sign on it at street level (courtesy of Google Maps Street View) reads “Bedrock Mini-Storage”.  All signs of track in this area are gone.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Steve SANDIFER
 

I can’t give a definitive answer. In the “off” season they were often used on branch lines, even branch lines with mixed trains. Box cars were in demand for grain so reefers did the LCL work. Also remember that this was a way of utilizing them in westward movement which was the predominate direction of LCL.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 10:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 


Stephen, thanks! Would this mean that the SFRD reefers in LCL service were used
only between ATSF freight houses?

Tim O'Connor

On 11/10/2021 10:39 PM, Steve SANDIFER wrote:

Yes. Santa Fe even built freight houses at Kansas City and Chicago where one track was 7” lower than the others where box cars and reefers could be located. The reefer floor was 14” higher than the box car floor so instead of pushing a 2 wheel dolly up 14” (wow) you would push it 7” up to a reefer or 7” down to a box car.

I have a conductors record book from 1923 in Kansas. It shows 1088 cars in trains. 288 of those were reefers (21%) of which 43 were in LCL service. 11% of the cars in this record were LCL cars: 101 westbound and 21 eastbound.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Refrigerator Car Return Instruction 1955

 


I've seen many photos of cars at LCL freight houses and I can't recall ever seeing
a reefer amongst the box cars. Has anyone got photos showing this?

Tim O'Connor

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Bob those are team tracks, for carloads. Every city large or small had them.

The NKP operated this team track yard in Cleveland.



On 11/11/2021 1:30 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Here is a link from the Trainweb site showing the large Baltimore & Ohio West 26th Street Freight Station and Storage Warehouse on July 7, 1951.  The location is between Eleventh and Twelfth Avenues in Manhattan.  There is a second B&O facility (West 24th Street Freight House) closer to the camera.  The structure to the left is the B&O and Republic Carloading Freight House.  The Republic section previously was operated by Seaboard Freight.

 

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/bo26aerial1951.jpg

 

Click on the image to enlarge it.

 

In between the freight houses are at least nine stub-end tracks.  Notice the three successive refrigerator cars (One Great Northern, one SFRD and one PFE) among all the boxcars.  Dunnage is visible in the open doorway of the SFRD car. There is another PFE car closer to the camera in the first fully visible row. 

 

This was not a refrigerated freight house as far as I know and there is no rooftop equipment to indicate refrigeration facilities.  The smaller freight house closer to the camera likewise does not have refrigerated facilities.  In all likelihood the cars were used to ship products that required some protection from heat or rapid temperature changes. (It’s July, remember.)   

 

It is not as likely these cars were shipped to New York with some of the other items occasionally carried in reefers heading west such as newspapers and magazines from East Coast publishers, tires, furniture and various clean items such as canned goods, candy and boxed items, or LCL shipments from mail order houses.

 

Lastly, as there were three driveways between the various tracks it is possible whatever was unloaded from the reefers never went into either freight house but was placed on trucks.

 

This building is still standing.  The sign on it at street level (courtesy of Google Maps Street View) reads “Bedrock Mini-Storage”.  All signs of track in this area are gone.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Nick Gully
 

Amazing how many nice sedans are parked between the reefers, as well as trucks unloading. Is this for staff, or people inspecting the produce?

Great example of produce unloading.
-Nick