What is this kit?


Ray Carson
 

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray


 

Also sold by Taurus. I have one built for me by George Gilbert.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Ray Carson via groups.io" <PrewarUPModeler@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, November 15, 2021 at 11:09 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray


Benjamin Hom
 

Ray Carson asked:
"I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure."

The instructions for this kit are uploaded to HO Seeker at

Go to the "Miscellaneous Diagrams" drop down menu and scroll down to "Prototype Modeler Reefer".  There are 11 files.

According to the instructions, the kits are from Marketing East, Inc., and model RI 67750-67999 built by General American in 1924.


Ben Hom


 

Here are photos of mine.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via groups.io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, November 15, 2021 at 11:23 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Also sold by Taurus. I have one built for me by George Gilbert.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Ray Carson via groups.io" <PrewarUPModeler@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, November 15, 2021 at 11:09 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray


Steve and Barb Hile
 

The cars in question were built by GAC in 1924 as RI 67750-67999.  They were quite similar to a contemporary PFE car (I think R-30-13) but with ladders instead of grabs on the ends and sides.

 

 

The cars were later sold back to GAC and then leased back about 1933 after refurbishing with the same numbers but GARE and then GARX reporting marks.  There is a nice Ernst Steffan photo from 1939 in the NMRA collection.  In the early 50’s, the RI bought a few of them back for Ice Service.  Bringing them full circle.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ray Carson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ray:

You are correct that this kit was marketed through Prototype modeler in the early 1980s.  There was a PFE kit offered about the same time.Plans for this car appeared in the Train Shed Cyclopedie series for 1927 (I think) freight cars. This issue seems to have escaped me this morning.  I partially built this kit and then moved on to other things.  I really would like to finish it as it is a unique (Never produced by anyone else) and attractive car.  I have a photo of  an O scale model done by a very famous modeler 

I still have several wood cars on my roster as illustrated below.  They pretty well hold their own today.  In the Bx 3 photo the wood car is on the left (but I’m sure you knew that ).

Bill Pardie



On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:09 AM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray <prototype_modeler_kit.jpg>


 

Builder photos.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, November 15, 2021 at 11:41 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

The cars in question were built by GAC in 1924 as RI 67750-67999.  They were quite similar to a contemporary PFE car (I think R-30-13) but with ladders instead of grabs on the ends and sides.

 

 

The cars were later sold back to GAC and then leased back about 1933 after refurbishing with the same numbers but GARE and then GARX reporting marks.  There is a nice Ernst Steffan photo from 1939 in the NMRA collection.  In the early 50’s, the RI bought a few of them back for Ice Service.  Bringing them full circle.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ray Carson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray


Kenneth Montero
 

Ray,

You have a kit that is vintage 1979-1982.

Researching through old Walthers catalogs, Prototype Modeler's first kit #1001 was a PFE R-30-13 reefer in 1978 for $7.95. The Rock Island Reefer was introduced in 1979 as kit #1002 for $8.95. It was not cataloged in the 1980 catalog, but resurfaced as a Taurus Products kit in the 1982 catalog as # 304 fro $12.95 (the PFE kit was #303 for $12.95). The 2000 catalog Listed the kit under the Taurus/Trout Creek Engineering label as 2872, and the PFE reefer was listed as 2871.
Both were last listed in the 2008 catalog for $23.00.

The current webbiste, http://www.troutcreekeng.co/trout-creek-ho/ does not list these kits.

There is an article about this reefer in Mainline Modeler, April 1999, starting at page 43. Please note that the kit shows a typical stemwinder brake wheel, whereas the photo in the article shows a lever-type brake mechanism. The photo in the article shows T-type trucks, whereas the drawing in the article shows later-type "Bettendorf type" trucks. The fishbelly underframe also appears to be incorrect in the kit, at least from what I see in the article.I suspect that the PFE kit was copied with only a change in decals.

Most, but not all, of Brian's photos are in this article, but the article also contains some other photos, including one of a car under construction.

I started the kit, but did not like the wide gaps in the siding, so I started to use the core and went board-by-board - but this kit still is not finished, so I don't have a finished product to show. The decals looked OK.

Ken Montero




On 11/15/2021 12:52 PM BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


Builder photos.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, November 15, 2021 at 11:41 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

The cars in question were built by GAC in 1924 as RI 67750-67999.  They were quite similar to a contemporary PFE car (I think R-30-13) but with ladders instead of grabs on the ends and sides.

 

 

The cars were later sold back to GAC and then leased back about 1933 after refurbishing with the same numbers but GARE and then GARX reporting marks.  There is a nice Ernst Steffan photo from 1939 in the NMRA collection.  In the early 50’s, the RI bought a few of them back for Ice Service.  Bringing them full circle.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ray Carson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?


Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray



Kenneth Montero
 

Bill,

My search through the Walthers catalogs only showed the PFE and RI reefers under the Prototype Modeler label.

Ken Montero

On 11/15/2021 12:46 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


Ray:

You are correct that this kit was marketed through Prototype modeler in the early 1980s.  There was a PFE kit offered about the same time.Plans for this car appeared in the Train Shed Cyclopedie series for 1927 (I think) freight cars. This issue seems to have escaped me this morning.  I partially built this kit and then moved on to other things.  I really would like to finish it as it is a unique (Never produced by anyone else) and attractive car.  I have a photo of  an O scale model done by a very famous modeler 

I still have several wood cars on my roster as illustrated below.  They pretty well hold their own today.  In the Bx 3 photo the wood car is on the left (but I’m sure you knew that ).

Bill Pardie



On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:09 AM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray <prototype_modeler_kit.jpg>


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 10:39 AM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
I started the kit, but did not like the wide gaps in the siding, so I started to use the core and went board-by-board - but this kit still is not finished, so I don't have a finished product to show. The decals looked OK.
 
A common problem with single sheathed house car kits all the way through the Train Miniature  plastic kits. People repeatedly looked at the general arrangement drawings published in various editions of the Car Builder's Dictionary, saw a call-out on the sheathing that said 5-1/4" T&G, and said, "great, I can use 1/16" scribed wood." No one ever bothered to look for the drawing of the standard pattern siding, which has a centered V groove, making it look like two 2-5/8" wide boards. So, all those kits have siding twice as wide as the prototype. To compound the problem, everyone used Northeastern scribed siding, which had gaps a scale 7/8" wide between the boards.

Other things that are really dated; the I section used for the crossbearers is really thick, and lacks the characteristic ogee cut on the end used by Bettendorf on their underframes, and the decal lettering, while crisp, is oversize.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but unless you are like Doc Denny and build antique kits for the joy of building a kit you couldn't build while you were a kid, these older kits just don't compare with today's models.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


And I have the PFE R-30-13 kit from Taurus. 😁

IMG_2742.JPG
IMG_2743.JPG

On 11/15/2021 12:41 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

The cars in question were built by GAC in 1924 as RI 67750-67999.  They were quite similar to a contemporary PFE car (I think R-30-13) but with ladders instead of grabs on the ends and sides.



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


I forgot the pics

And I have the PFE R-30-13 kit from Taurus. 😁

IMG_2742.JPG
IMG_2743.JPG

On 11/15/2021 12:41 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

The cars in question were built by GAC in 1924 as RI 67750-67999.  They were quite similar to a contemporary PFE car (I think R-30-13) but with ladders instead of grabs on the ends and sides.




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

Reminds me of JP Barger who loves (loved?) building the old wood and cardstock freight
car kits, even though he is (was?) a major collector and supporter of fine scale models. So while
I totally agree most of the old models are nowhere near the current state of the art, or even
the art of the past 40 or so years, if we've never tried building one then we are missing out
on something valuable.

And as for unprototypical gaps in siding, I think we still see examples of that.  We're up against
the expectations of the 'mass market' that sees all wood sheathed cars that way.

Tim O'Connor


On 11/15/2021 3:13 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 10:39 AM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
I started the kit, but did not like the wide gaps in the siding, so I started to use the core and went board-by-board - but this kit still is not finished, so I don't have a finished product to show. The decals looked OK.
 
A common problem with single sheathed house car kits all the way through the Train Miniature  plastic kits. People repeatedly looked at the general arrangement drawings published in various editions of the Car Builder's Dictionary, saw a call-out on the sheathing that said 5-1/4" T&G, and said, "great, I can use 1/16" scribed wood." No one ever bothered to look for the drawing of the standard pattern siding, which has a centered V groove, making it look like two 2-5/8" wide boards. So, all those kits have siding twice as wide as the prototype. To compound the problem, everyone used Northeastern scribed siding, which had gaps a scale 7/8" wide between the boards.

Other things that are really dated; the I section used for the crossbearers is really thick, and lacks the characteristic ogee cut on the end used by Bettendorf on their underframes, and the decal lettering, while crisp, is oversize.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but unless you are like Doc Denny and build antique kits for the joy of building a kit you couldn't build while you were a kid, these older kits just don't compare with today's models.

Dennis Storzek


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Could someone who has this kit kindly copy and send the instructions?  It would be much appreciated.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Date: 11/15/21 8:44 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

Bill,

My search through the Walthers catalogs only showed the PFE and RI reefers under the Prototype Modeler label.

Ken Montero
On 11/15/2021 12:46 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


Ray:

You are correct that this kit was marketed through Prototype modeler in the early 1980s.  There was a PFE kit offered about the same time.Plans for this car appeared in the Train Shed Cyclopedie series for 1927 (I think) freight cars. This issue seems to have escaped me this morning.  I partially built this kit and then moved on to other things.  I really would like to finish it as it is a unique (Never produced by anyone else) and attractive car.  I have a photo of  an O scale model done by a very famous modeler 

I still have several wood cars on my roster as illustrated below.  They pretty well hold their own today.  In the Bx 3 photo the wood car is on the left (but I’m sure you knew that ).

Bill Pardie



On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:09 AM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:

Group,

I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray <prototype_modeler_kit.jpg>


Douglas Harding
 

See the message from Ben Hom from earlier today regarding https://www.hoseeker.net/miscdiagrams.html

You will find the complete instructions as Ben directs.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Could someone who has this kit kindly copy and send the instructions?  It would be much appreciated.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>

Date: 11/15/21 8:44 AM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What is this kit?

 

Bill,

 

My search through the Walthers catalogs only showed the PFE and RI reefers under the Prototype Modeler label.

 

Ken Montero

On 11/15/2021 12:46 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:

 

 

Ray:

 

You are correct that this kit was marketed through Prototype modeler in the early 1980s.  There was a PFE kit offered about the same time.Plans for this car appeared in the Train Shed Cyclopedie series for 1927 (I think) freight cars. This issue seems to have escaped me this morning.  I partially built this kit and then moved on to other things.  I really would like to finish it as it is a unique (Never produced by anyone else) and attractive car.  I have a photo of  an O scale model done by a very famous modeler 

 

I still have several wood cars on my roster as illustrated below.  They pretty well hold their own today.  In the Bx 3 photo the wood car is on the left (but I’m sure you knew that ).

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:09 AM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:

 

Group,


I went to the train shop recently and bought some kits, this is one of those kits. I believe Prototype Modeler was involved with this wood kit, but I looked through the TrainLife archives and can't find any information on this kit, other PM kits, or the Rock Island reefer. Any information on when this was made would be great.

Also photos of the Rock Island prototype would be useful (especially from the late 1930s). This may be accurate but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Ray <prototype_modeler_kit.jpg>

 


lrkdbn
 

That is an absolutely beautiful build-itreally shows what can be done with the wood kits
Larry King


WILLIAM PARDIE
 




_._,_._,_

Here is the  “O”  scale model that I referred to in this thread.

Bill Pardie


lrkdbn
 

I think  that the significance of the Prototype Modeler PFE and RI reefer kits is that they placed the car in CONTEXT -i.e. that the PFE R-30-13 was the typical PFE reefer of the 1920-30 period.There were many prototype based kits (Ambroid/ Northeastern and Quality Craft come to mind) but they tended to stress the "novelty" or "uniqueness" of the subject car. For instance, Ambroid's PRR R-7 said nothing about the car's
importance as a standard PRR car, or its long career with FGE which was still going on when the kit was first issued. All they said was that it was a"1912 reefer with "unusual" lettering". To be fair, that was all Model Railroader said about it when they published plans for it.The only other kit maker besides PM that tried to relate their kit to the prototype's place in the real world was Suncoast, with their FGEX and ATSF cars.For me, the PM PFE kit was a real eye opener ans is what started me on prototype freight car modeling.
Larry King.