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CN Slabside Hopper
Clark Propst
The reason I asked about the number series’ is because I have some data from the late 60s show several Canadian hoppers carrying potash. Clark
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Doug Polinder
Marc, articles were in RMC sometime in the mid 1980s, maybe 1986. Sorry don't have the issues at hand.
Doug Polinder Seguin TX |
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Marc Simpson
Further to my earlier email, the "Smooth Canadian" slabside article was in the August 1986 RMC and includes a list of commodity loads for these cars. Marc Simpson |
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Marc Simpson
The as delivered number series were in the 135000 to 135787 series until a fleetwide renumbered program in the late 1960s-early 1970s. www.nakina.net has tons of information on the Canadian railway fleets. Marc Simpson |
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John Riddell
The number series for the CN slab sides was 113170-135787.
John Riddell |
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John Riddell
The August 1986 issue of RMC contains an excellent article by Ken Goslett on the Canadian slab side covered hoppers. From 1948 to 1962 CPR purchased 1,471 cars from two builders. From 1951 to 1962 CNR purchased 1,163 cars from four builders. From 1956 to 1964 TH&B purchased 90 cars from NSC. PGE purchased 25 cars in 1962. There were numerous variations such as style of roof, number and size of roof hatches (6, 8,10,12) and openings along bottom of the side sheets. They could carry grain but there is no photographic evidence and it is highly unlikely as the grain industry used box cars until the arrival of the cylindrical grain hoppers.
John Riddell |
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Clark Propst
How about Potash? Does anyone have the number series’ for these cars? Clark Propst
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Marc Simpson
Grain was an at least occasional shipment in the slabside cars. While I can't say for sure about the 1950s era they were used in the 1970s and 1980s based on what I saw being loaded at the elevators on the Canadian Prairies in my youth. There is an excellent series of articles in RMC by Ken Gossett and Stafford Swain about the slabsides. I'll dig up the issues when I get home tonight. Regarding the earlier post about the Sylvan kits being reissued by me, the TLT/Atlas RTR cars have pretty much killed the market for the kits with the possible exception of the unique to CP 10 hatch cars. All the other variants are available in the RTR cars. However of someone wants a bunch of kits we might be able to do it at some point. Black Cat Decals has brought out etched phosphor bronze end cages for these cars that greatly simplify building the kits. They also greatly improve the TLT/Atlas car ends. Marc Simpson |
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Gavin
As far as I know, they were used for dense products only, not grain. Seeing as Canadian railways had massive fleets of Dominion, Fowler and modified 40' Steel cars to handle the grain loads and the infrastructure in place to handle them, major changes in how grain was handled did not occur until the Government of Canada hopper fleet began appearing. Due to the nature of the products, most cars also got very filthy very quickly, and most can be seen in photos with lime stains on the outside turning the car white. On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:18 AM Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:
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Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Were the cars ever used to carry grain? Canada sure produces a lot of it. It seems to me that they were rather large to be used primarily for dense lading like cement, though I understand that they sometimes were. They were, I believe, 3000 cubic foot, 70 ton, 4 bay cars. Most 70 ton cement hoppers were roughly 2000 cubic feet, with two bays, and I should imagine the loading and unloading machinery was set up to take cars of that type. I worked briefly as a plant operator for Southdown Cement in the '90s, and our plant could not have accepted a car that big. Bob Ellis. Here's a link to the True Line hopper info: |
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Jim
I have images of the cars in Iowa, Illinois, and Pennsylvania. None of them border Canada. Images of US freight cars in Canada are quite numerous and vice versa. I have a 1967 photo my Dad took of an Algoma Central single sheathed box car in Pueblo, Colorado. I would say they were not a very common sight in the US before the 1960s, but not improbable and definitely not impossible. Other major commodities include potash which these days is a massive import into the US. On 2/7/2022 1:36 PM, Jim Mischke wrote: There are several limitations to Canadian slab-side covered hopper circulation in the states. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Jim Mischke
There are several limitations to Canadian slab-side covered hopper circulation in the states.
(1). Cement and lime tend to be low-value, short-distance hauls for any covered hoppers in this trade. The raw materials and cement plants are commonplace across North America, no need to sell limestone, lime, or cement far away. So these Canadian covered hopper cars might be seen aplenty in US border states yet no farther. (2). These cars were few before 1956 or so. Railroad managements clung to multi-use general freight cars for their backhaul possibilities, and shunned specialty freight cars for their inherently empty return trip. Only when that last management generation was consumed ... in the biblical sense ... did specialty freight cars blossom. (3). To use covered hoppers, both the shipper and consignee must have proper operational facilities to load and unload, respectively. No mechanical bull bucking bronco boxcar unloaders permitted. In our modern experience, covered hopper loading/unloading is a slam dunk, but in the 1950s and 1960s, this was new materials handling technology. Customers facilities and covered hopper fleets grew together, slowly at first, and could constrain one another. (4). Canadian freight cars could only ride American rails for 30 days before being dubbed as sales by customs. This put all Canadian freight cars on a short leash in the USA until the NAFTA accords in 1993 or so. And vice versa. To me, this was stupid, but customs inspectors are from the government and here to help us. Another prospective load was specialty clays. Along the TH&B, General Refactories in Maitland, Ont. manufactured high performance fire brick, such as for blast furnaces. Clays, dry chemical additives, chromate smeltings, trace additives, and other ingredients were shipped to the plant from various sources, including in the US. B&O and TH&B participated in a covered hopper pool, one could see several loaded cars in a string headed north from Pittsburgh. Origination is vague, surviving documentation is incomplete: my 1963-64 Buffalo Division northbound wheel reports do not list source, southbound wheel reports showing empties went into some other unwatched dumpster far, far away. |
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spsalso
Here's a link to the True Line hopper info:
https://sites.google.com/a/truelinetrains.ca/tlt/freight-cars/slab-side-hoppers Note that you can click on "freight", in the upper left, to check out their other cars. Ed Edward Sutorik |
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James Yaworsky
Atlas bought a lot of the True Line product line, including the slabside hopper molds:
Looks like their first run sold out, but presumably they are available from dealers and/or there's going to be a second run in the works...
Jim Yaworsky
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Drew Bunn
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 1:22 PM Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:
Atlas actually owns the TLT tooling now and issued a re-release of these cars in HO, I think, within the last 18 months. https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1564-h210.aspx?pagenum=1&sort=7 __________________________________ Drew Bunn drew.r.bunn@... Cell - (905) 483-0758 |
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Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
As I'm sure I've said before, I'm not very good at computers, and I don't know how to do a link. But True Line Trains did models of these cars a few years ago, and if you go to their website, they have a roster, including build dates, differences between the various lots, a short history of the cars, and a bibliography. Sylvan resin kits for these cars are available from time to time on Ebay. I should imagine the True Line cars are, as well, but I don't know. Marc Simpson is reissuing many Sylvan freight car kits. I don't know if he has done any hoppers, but he can be reached at mesagkits@.... Hope this helps. Bob Ellis. Bruce, this may only tangentially answer your question but I found a picture of CP XX0294 on the GN in Edmonds WA in July 1960 in Hickcox' book Great Northern in Color, volume 1, which was enough to justify my buying one of Sylvan's slabsides and modeling the CP car. Understand that CP tended to interchange more with NP, while CN's favored interchange partner for US destinations (at New Westminster BC) was GN. So if a CP car showed up on the GN, it is highly likely that CN slabsides also made it to the US. A lot of CN cars traveled via the GN over the Inside Gateway (GN-WP-ATSF) to Southern Cal. |
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maynard stowe
Another one of this terrific Film board of Canada movies. They capture life long gone 50 to 70 years ago. My favorite is still the one about the country elevator operator.
Maynard Stowe |
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Another CP-GN route was via the GN from the border through Great Falls MT (Milw) and then through Helena (NP) to Butte-SilverBow (UP). Tim O'Connor On 2/5/2022 11:06 PM, Doug Polinder via groups.io wrote: Bruce, this may only tangentially answer your question but I found a picture of CP XX0294 on the GN in Edmonds WA in July 1960 in Hickcox' book Great Northern in Color, volume 1, which was enough to justify my buying one of Sylvan's slabsides and modeling the CP car. Understand that CP tended to interchange more with NP, while CN's favored interchange partner for US destinations (at New Westminster BC) was GN. So if a CP car showed up on the GN, it is highly likely that CN slabsides also made it to the US. A lot of CN cars traveled via the GN over the Inside Gateway (GN-WP-ATSF) to Southern Cal. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Doug Polinder
Bruce, this may only tangentially answer your question but I found a picture of CP XX0294 on the GN in Edmonds WA in July 1960 in Hickcox' book Great Northern in Color, volume 1, which was enough to justify my buying one of Sylvan's slabsides and modeling the CP car. Understand that CP tended to interchange more with NP, while CN's favored interchange partner for US destinations (at New Westminster BC) was GN. So if a CP car showed up on the GN, it is highly likely that CN slabsides also made it to the US. A lot of CN cars traveled via the GN over the Inside Gateway (GN-WP-ATSF) to Southern Cal.
Doug Polinder Seguin TX |
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Ian Cranstone
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