Ps-0 boxcars
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Brad Andonian
I was watching an eBay auction for a pair of ho ps-0 steel boxcars from AWE. The cover mentions cgw, pm, up, ble and wle as roads correct for the models. Any input and clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks, brad Andonian |
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Allan Smith
See the attached file from Garth Groff, to which I added CGW 92000-92149. AL Smith Sonora CA
On Sunday, February 20, 2022, 07:06:43 PM PST, Brad Andonian <brad@...> wrote:
I was watching an eBay auction for a pair of ho ps-0 steel boxcars from AWE. The cover mentions cgw, pm, up, ble and wle as roads correct for the models. Any input and clarification would be appreciated. Thanks, brad Andonian |
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Brad Andonian
Allan,
my thanks…. Now to dig out build dates and perhaps and image or two… |
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Allan Smith
I have conductors lists for the Sierra RR in 1952-54. there are 14 PS-O cars on the lists, so I have as much info as I can find on the internet, books, photos etc. If you will send me a note on which cars you plan to build I can send you off list photos, plans etc of B&O, Seaboard, WLE, CGW, & B&LE Smithal9@...
On Sunday, February 20, 2022, 08:00:34 PM PST, Brad Andonian <brad@...> wrote:
Allan, my thanks…. Now to dig out build dates and perhaps and image or two… |
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The so-called PS-0 (a name coined I think by John Nehrich) is a pre-war Pullman Standard welded box car design. UP had exactly one car. The CGW really liked them. :-) CDS made a lettering set for the CGW cars. Tim O'Connor On 2/20/2022 10:06 PM, Brad Andonian wrote: I was watching an eBay auction for a pair of ho ps-0 steel boxcars from AWE. The cover mentions cgw, pm, up, ble and wle as roads correct for the models. Any input and clarification would be appreciated. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts 
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mopacfirst
Who's AWE?
I couldn't find this listing, but then I'm not looking to bid anyway. I built one of the F&C cars years ago, and may have used the decals that came in the box. Spent some time filing the sill tabs and a few other things at an angle on the back side so that the thickness wasn't so obvious. Ron Merrick |
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gary laakso
AW were the initials of the founder of Oriental Limited, a brass importer, and with that business reduced, he added an E for Enterprise and brought in a few brass pieces and a the GN wood ore and coal resin kit.
Gary Laakso Northwest of Mike Brock
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:25 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars
Who's AWE? |
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Anthony Wenzel Enterprises = AWE Oriental was sold to Challenger (Albert Ichelson) AWE imported not-quite-exact copies of a number of Shoreham Shops brass passenger cars from Samhongsa. This was around the time that Samhongsa was successfully sued by Lionel and maybe MTH for using their designs to produce models for other importers, which ended up bankrupting Samhongsa. Shoreham Shops morphed into Rail Classics (change of owners or something else?) but I don't know if it was related to this mess. The only AWE freight car I know about is the 1930's welded Pullman Standard box car. Tim O'Connor On 2/21/2022 9:00 PM, gary laakso wrote:
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Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Several years ago, I read a very long, comprehensive article about the PS-0, which included several engineering drawings and numerous test reports. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it. What I THINK I remember is, in 1936, Pullman built one experimental car of all-welded construction and gave it to the UP for testing. The idea was to prove the efficacy of fusion welding, and to save weight by using thinner panels of high carbon steel. It suffered major structural damage, and was returned to Pullman and dismantled. In 1938, Pullman built (I think) 1000 cars with 10' ih to much the same design, but using thicker panels. These cars had welded underframes, 5 panel 9 rib ends, 18 panel sides, 7 panel welded 6' doors, and 20(?) panel radial roofs. They were sold to 3 roads: B&LE, CGW, and (I think) UP. In 1940, Pullman built 1500 more cars with 10'6" ih and 10 rib ends for WLE, NKP, and PM. The War Production Board considered the design experimental, and forbade its further production. In 1941, Pullman built several lots of riveted 1937 AAR boxcars with Pullman proprietary ends and roofs, for the B&O, NKP, TC, and WLE. These were entirely different cars. That's from memory, and I welcome correction. Bob Ellis. On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 07:02 Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Philip Dove
I remember reading the same, which means it was probably in an early RPCyc, or Mainline modeller in the 1990s. On Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 16:36 Robert Ellis, <bobjel67@...> wrote:
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Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Philip: Definitely not RPCyc. I checked. RMJ had a brief mention of the TPW cars -- secondhand from C&O, I think -- in one of their first articles about PS-1s, so 1990 or 91. They had a follow up in the late 90s, but it was nowhere near as comprehensive as the one we're remembering. It wasn't in Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Cars, so almost certainly Mainline Modeler. Unfortunately, mine are in storage. I hope someone knows for sure. Thanks, Bob. On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 12:55 Philip Dove <philipdove22@...> wrote:
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Chris Barkan
In case anyone is wondering what the model looks like, I think these photos are the boxcar from A.W. Enterprises that inspired the original question.
-- Chris Barkan Champaign, IL 
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Brian Rochon
I found the following short articles on Ps-0 box cars.
RMJ Nov 1993 RMJ Feb 1994 (Richard Hendrickson) RMS Mar 2001 Model Railroading Feb 1987
Brian Rochon Silver Spring, MD |
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Also Trainshed Cyclopedias
TSC #75 pp.350-353 PS-0 pictures, plus shot of PS-0 welded steel underframe TSC #75 p.357 1937 builder photo PLM #501 I like the nickname PS-0. But the evolution of the cars is interesting - I'd never made the mental connection between these cars for example and the B&O M55 and then the PS-1 itself. There was a steady evolution of the Pullman design. Tim O'Connor On 2/23/2022 5:04 PM, Brian Rochon wrote:
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Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts 
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Richard Townsend
The first article that I have found to use the term "PS-0" was by John Nehrich in the February 1988 Mainline Modeler at pages 40-45. It includes history, photos (PLM 500[a predecessor], CGW 90017, B&LE 90171, UP 186028, NKP 20000, WLE 20000, CGW 52183, C&EI 2 [these CGW and C&EI cars are described as later transitional], and UP 100501), and plans for NKP 20000. Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Rochon <berochon@...> To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Wed, Feb 23, 2022 2:04 pm Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars I found the following short articles on Ps-0 box cars.
RMJ Nov 1993
RMJ Feb 1994 (Richard Hendrickson)
RMS Mar 2001
Model Railroading Feb 1987
Brian Rochon
Silver Spring, MD
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On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 02:48 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tim and Group, I've always found the moniker PS-0 picked by John Nehrich to have been unfortunate. These early Pullman welded and lightweight boxcar builds were experimental test cars in large part with the very first being extremely lightweight, way under 40000 LBS as I recall, with successive builds getting heavier as experience taught. A better moniker in my view would have been PS-X. Dan Smith |
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Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Thank you, Mr. Townsend. I'm sure that's the article I remember. C&EI 1-5 were express boxcars of riveted construction, similar to the M-55, but without Duryea underframes, and with steam and signal lines and high speed trucks. I believe Stan Rydarowicz wrote an article, perhaps two, about the wartime Pullman cars in Railmodel Journal. He offered minikits for all of them, as well as for 50 foot cars owned by the CGW and KCS(?) On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 18:26 Dan Smith <espeefan@...> wrote: On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 02:48 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote: |
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Richard Townsend
I agree with Mr. Smith regarding the unfortunateness of the term "PS-0." "PS-0" seems to place the early lightweight Pullman Standard boxcars in the series of standardized cars that Pullman Standard offered: PS-1 boxcars, PS-2 covered hoppers, PS-3 open hoppers, PS-4 flat car, and PS-5 gondola. To my mind this adds confusion, not clarity. Yes, some of know that "PS-0" refers to some early lightweight boxcars, but as this discussion itself reveals, some of us don't. For those who insist on using "PS-0" I suggest at least adding "so-called" to the term.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Smith <espeefan@...> To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Sent: Wed, Feb 23, 2022 3:26 pm Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 02:48 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tim and Group, I've always found the moniker PS-0 picked by John Nehrich to have been unfortunate. These early Pullman welded and lightweight boxcar builds were experimental test cars in large part with the very first being extremely lightweight, way under 40000 LBS as I recall, with successive builds getting heavier as experience taught. A better moniker in my view would have been PS-X. Dan Smith |
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Hi Chris Are you selling this car?
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Barkan <cplbarkan@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 3:39 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars In case anyone is wondering what the model looks like, I think these photos are the boxcar from A.W. Enterprises that inspired the original question.
-- Chris Barkan Champaign, IL Attachments: |
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