|
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the
surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 5:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way
through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I
saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J
SAD wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered,
and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak
to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth”
flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner
and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck
of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in
as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have
two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were,
from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in
to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion
of the casting. There are obviously numerous circular
depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft
gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions
that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not
figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not
know these cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs
welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel
circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the
IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel
Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the
deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Bruce Smith
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the
surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the
surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Elden wrote:
“Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.”
All flat cars built new or rebuilt on and after January 1, 1954 were required to be equipped with lading strap anchors. The details of anchors, locations and modifications to stake pockets were adopted as Standard in 1952 (C-26A). These standards were established to alleviate the cutting of wire and steel banding secured to stake pockets with sharp edges. The 1956 revision (below) was the addition of the note.
The requirement for cars used in interchange to be fitted with permanent anchors was considered by the AAR’s Car Construction Committee in 1953. The proposal was submitted to the membership (via letter ballot) and received overwhelming approval. The new rule was added to the (revised) Interchange Rules, effective January 1, 1953. As was often the case a year was granted so as to exempt cars under construction or scheduled for construction.
Interchange Rule 3, Section (f), Paragraph (2) Flat cars built new or rebuilt on and after January 1, 1954 must be equipped with lading strap anchors as shown on Manual page C-26A, or an equivalent arrangement. From owners.
In 1955 the rule was revised to backdate the requirement to all cars built new or rebuilt on and after January 1, 1940. This was to take effect January 1, 1956, but was subsequently extended (yearly) and was still not in force as of January 1, 1961.
In 1956 Paragraph 2 was renumbered 3. I’ve included the following to show the complete revised rule. Again, the 1940 requirement was never in effect during the span of the STMFC.
Rule 3, Section (f), Paragraph (3) Flat Cars built new or rebuilt on and after January 1, 1954 must be equipped with lading strap anchors as shown on Manual page C-26A, or an equivalent arrangement. From owners. Effective January 1, 1957, the foregoing requirement will apply to all flat cars built new or rebuilt on and after January 1, 1940. From owners.
Guy Wilber Reno, Nevada
|
|
|
Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the
surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale
Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the
link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43
AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict:
Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod
threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a
piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two
nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale
Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley"
you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great
big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical
ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go
all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as
tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way
through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw
the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD
wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never
looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat
often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year
built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the
flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have
two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was
told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of
cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are
obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting
inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT
go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way
they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They
collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the
side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See
attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's
Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel
Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Thanks, Claus. I don't know how to do stuff like that, I'm afraid. Btw, I should have specified the round holes in the end sills and the outboard edge of the bolster. Obviously the circular depressions in the bolster itself and the draft gear couldn't be tiedowns. I wasn't aware they were for stress relief. Thanks, Elden. Bob Ellis.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 11:40 Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...> wrote:
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale
Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the
link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43
AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict:
Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod
threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a
piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two
nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale
Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley"
you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great
big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical
ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go
all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as
tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way
through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw
the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD
wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never
looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat
often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year
built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the
flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have
two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was
told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of
cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There are
obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting
inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT
go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way
they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars. They
collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the
side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See
attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's
Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel
Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Fabulous, Claus!
I wish I could see the flatcar! There were not many well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated me.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 11:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the
threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.
There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.
They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
As best I can tell, it's the PRR F28, PRR435492. Here's my model of it. The car is from Crown Custom Imports.
Fabulous, Claus!
I wish I could see the flatcar! There were not many well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated me.
Elden Gatwood
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0377/1796/6987/products/303442878200-5_1024x1024@...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the
threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.
There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.
They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Thanks Bob, now the question of the day is; should I model them
on my IC GSC flats? They seen really prominent in that photo but
I've not seen them in any other photos of an IC flat in service so
I wonder if they fill with dirt and aren't really noticeable.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/23/2022 11:16 AM, Robert Ellis
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks, Claus. I don't know how to do stuff like
that, I'm afraid. Btw, I should have specified the round holes
in the end sills and the outboard edge of the bolster.
Obviously the circular depressions in the bolster itself and the
draft gear couldn't be tiedowns. I wasn't aware they were for
stress relief. Thanks, Elden. Bob Ellis.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 11:40
Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the
image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem
Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday,
February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL
Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down
holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread,
or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end
of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate
with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two
nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go
on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive
Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in
practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great
big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of
these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all
the way through the carbody. They are stake
pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go
all the way through. Tie down points is what
came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM,
Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question
was answered, and I never looked at the IC
flat specifically, but can speak to another
GSC cast flat often referred to as a
“Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings
varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of
“holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious
ones were the square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each end;
these have two.
The other, more numerous
“holes”, were, from what I was told,
“stress-relieving” depressions cast in to
minimize chances of cracking in the
slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There
are obviously numerous circular depressions in
the surface of the casting inboard of the
draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over
had depressions that did NOT go the entire
depth of the casting. I could not figure out
a way they were used to secure loads, but I do
not know these cars. They collected a lot of
dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did
have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the
rim, in the form of steel circles. See
attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being
assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from
frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at
each end of the deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Jeff: stake pockets are pretty hefty -- about 3" x 4" -- and open at the bottom, so no, I doubt they would fill up with dirt. Besides, while railcars get grimy, most of them, especially flatcars, aren't exposed to the kinds of dirt that would pack up and fill a hole. I think the reason you don't see them is because most photos of flatcars are taken at an angle where the upper surface of the end sills isn't visible. As to whether you should model them, that's up to you. Here's a couple of pictures of a Southern Railway flatcar from Smoky Mountain Model Works where I did, using Tichy stake pockets.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 16:30 Jeffrey White < jrwhite@...> wrote:
Thanks Bob, now the question of the day is; should I model them
on my IC GSC flats? They seen really prominent in that photo but
I've not seen them in any other photos of an IC flat in service so
I wonder if they fill with dirt and aren't really noticeable.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/23/2022 11:16 AM, Robert Ellis
wrote:
Thanks, Claus. I don't know how to do stuff like
that, I'm afraid. Btw, I should have specified the round holes
in the end sills and the outboard edge of the bolster.
Obviously the circular depressions in the bolster itself and the
draft gear couldn't be tiedowns. I wasn't aware they were for
stress relief. Thanks, Elden. Bob Ellis.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 11:40
Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the
image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem
Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday,
February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL
Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down
holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread,
or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end
of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate
with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two
nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go
on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive
Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in
practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great
big gash in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of
these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all
the way through the carbody. They are stake
pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go
all the way through. Tie down points is what
came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM,
Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question
was answered, and I never looked at the IC
flat specifically, but can speak to another
GSC cast flat often referred to as a
“Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings
varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of
“holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious
ones were the square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each end;
these have two.
The other, more numerous
“holes”, were, from what I was told,
“stress-relieving” depressions cast in to
minimize chances of cracking in the
slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There
are obviously numerous circular depressions in
the surface of the casting inboard of the
draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over
had depressions that did NOT go the entire
depth of the casting. I could not figure out
a way they were used to secure loads, but I do
not know these cars. They collected a lot of
dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did
have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the
rim, in the form of steel circles. See
attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being
assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from
frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at
each end of the deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Bob,
I'm talking about the stress relief depressions. I plan on
modeling the stake pockets.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/23/2022 4:21 PM, Robert Ellis
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Jeff: stake pockets are pretty hefty -- about 3" x
4" -- and open at the bottom, so no, I doubt they would fill up
with dirt. Besides, while railcars get grimy, most of them,
especially flatcars, aren't exposed to the kinds of dirt that
would pack up and fill a hole. I think the reason you don't see
them is because most photos of flatcars are taken at an angle
where the upper surface of the end sills isn't visible. As to
whether you should model them, that's up to you. Here's a couple
of pictures of a Southern Railway flatcar from Smoky Mountain
Model Works where I did, using Tichy stake pockets.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 16:30
Jeffrey White < jrwhite@...>
wrote:
Thanks Bob, now the question of the day is; should I
model them on my IC GSC flats? They seen really prominent
in that photo but I've not seen them in any other photos
of an IC flat in service so I wonder if they fill with
dirt and aren't really noticeable.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/23/2022 11:16 AM, Robert Ellis wrote:
Thanks, Claus. I don't know how to do
stuff like that, I'm afraid. Btw, I should have
specified the round holes in the end sills and the
outboard edge of the bolster. Obviously the circular
depressions in the bolster itself and the draft gear
couldn't be tiedowns. I wasn't aware they were for
stress relief. Thanks, Elden. Bob Ellis.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022,
11:40 Claus Schlund \(HGM\) < claus@...>
wrote:
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested,
the image of the Multiscale Digital
website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley"
can be seen at the link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re:
[URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source]
[RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with
Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the
end. You drop the end of the rod through the
hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in
it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and
a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on
Multiscale Digital's website and look at the
"Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll
see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too
happy about that great big gash in his brand new
pulley.
They do. On at least
some of these, the cylindrical ones do
not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square
openings go all the way through the
carbody. They are stake pockets and can
be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of
Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes
didn't go all the way through. Tie down
points is what came immediately to mind
when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09
AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your
question was answered, and I never
looked at the IC flat specifically,
but can speak to another GSC cast flat
often referred to as a “Commonwealth”
flat.
Keep in mind that
castings varied by owner and year
built.
There were two
kinds of “holes” in the deck of the
flat. The obvious ones were the
square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each
end; these have two.
The other, more
numerous “holes”, were, from what I
was told, “stress-relieving”
depressions cast in to minimize
chances of cracking in the
slowest-cooling portion of the
casting. There are obviously numerous
circular depressions in the surface of
the casting inboard of the draft gear
and bolster.
The flats I crawled
over had depressions that did NOT go
the entire depth of the casting. I
could not figure out a way they were
used to secure loads, but I do not
know these cars. They collected a lot
of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats
did have tie-downs welded to the side
sill at the rim, in the form of steel
circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats
being assembled at the IC's Centralia
car shops from frames bought from
General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the
steel at each end of the deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other
photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Very nice. But - you forgot to model "that great big gash in his
brand new pulley"
;-)
Claus Schlund
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 3:20
PM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict:
Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
As best I can tell, it's the PRR F28, PRR435492. Here's my model
of it. The car is from Crown Custom Imports.
Fabulous, Claus!
I wish I could see the flatcar! There were not many
well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated
me.
Elden Gatwood
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image
of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared
pulley" can be seen at the link below...
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0377/1796/6987/products/303442878200-5_1024x1024@...
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Wednesday,
February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL
Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat
cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel
rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the
hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big
washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod.
If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive
Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't
look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new
pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the
cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square
openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and
can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION:
Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes
didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came
immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD
wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I
never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC
cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth”
flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year
built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the
flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake
pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have
two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I
was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances
of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting. There
are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the
casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did
NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a
way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these
cars. They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to
the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See
attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's
Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel
Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the
deck.
![]()
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma
IL
|
|
|
Man, that is a nice load! Nicely done!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Robert Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 3:21 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
As best I can tell, it's the PRR F28, PRR435492. Here's my model of it. The car is from Crown Custom Imports.
Fabulous, Claus!
I wish I could see the flatcar! There were not many well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated me.
Elden Gatwood
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43
AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD
Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like
a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash
in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.
There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.
They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Thank you, Elden. Multiscale makes it easy.
Man, that is a nice load! Nicely done!
As best I can tell, it's the PRR F28, PRR435492. Here's my model of it. The car is from Crown Custom Imports.
Fabulous, Claus!
I wish I could see the flatcar! There were not many well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated me.
Elden Gatwood
Hi Robert and List Members,
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43
AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD
Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?
The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole, use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like
a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod. If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash
in his brand new pulley.
They do. On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.
Elden Gatwood
Jeff,
I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
|
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through. Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.
Jeff White Alma IL
On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Jeff;
I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.
Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.
There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat. The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets. Some cars had four at each end; these have two.
The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.
There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.
The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting. I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.
They collected a lot of dirt.
Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles. See attached.
Elden Gatwood
I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.
I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck.
Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.
Jeff White Alma IL
|
|
|
