Date
1 - 20 of 20
Erie boxcar, late 1940s
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Tom Madden
This really neat photo was posted to two New Haven RR Facebook groups yesterday by Charles R. Lange. Photo taken by his father, Harry R. Lange, in the late 1940s. New Haven 2-6-0 on the Naugatuck local.
Tom Madden |
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Eric Hansmann
That’s a cool photo, Tom! Thanks for sharing.
This has a few weathering ideas. Check out the Pennsy hopper above the loco tender. Compare the paint outs and bold new weigh stencils with the rest of the car lettering. The loco is also well weathered. The Erie boxcar has a placard on the door but not on the car end tack board. And there’s a route card tacked wo the smaller board low on the door.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:57 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Erie boxcar, late 1940s
This really neat photo was posted to two New Haven RR Facebook groups yesterday by Charles R. Lange. Photo taken by his father, Harry R. Lange, in the late 1940s. New Haven 2-6-0 on the Naugatuck local. |
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Todd Sullivan
That industry in the background is interesting, also. Coal gasification plant? The coal looks lighter than bituminous, but anthracite doesn't have much gas content... Guess it could be a power plant ... Mysteries.
Comments / thoughts from others? Todd Sullivan |
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Coal gas, yes! https://www.stamfordhistory.org/rg8.htm On 2/26/2022 1:37 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote: That industry in the background is interesting, also. Coal gasification plant? The coal looks lighter than bituminous, but anthracite doesn't have much gas content... Guess it could be a power plant ... Mysteries. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
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Hi Tom, Todd and List Members,
Great photo, thanks.
The industry looks to be a manufactured gas plant - also sometimes known as
a coal gasification plant just as Todd suggested.
A manufactured gas plant had coal as its input, and produced gas (gas
holder tanks are clearly visible on the left) and coke as its outputs. I suspect
the big pile of 'coal' is likely coke.
It looks to me like coal is probably delivered in the PRR hoppers, and
dumped at the dumper on the right, where we can see a PRR class GLa twin hopper
in the process of being dumped. The coal gets hoisted out of the dumper by 1st
conveyor, and then the coal goes to either the retort house via
the 2nd (higher) conveyor or it goes into the coal storage bin to the left
of the 1st conveyor. I'm gonna guess that the coal in the coal storage
bin is ultimately intended for loading into coal delivery trucks
for sale to retail customers.
We don't have an exact date for the photo, do we? I'm gonna guess given the
trees are in full foliage that it is NOT during winter, and it may be
summer. This explains the large coke pile - the manufactured gas plant will
produce coke as a byproduct of the gas production process all year long, but the
high demand period for coke will be winter for home heating, so the
coke gets stockpiled during the non-heating season for sale later on.
Some manufactured gas plants also shipped out coal tar and aqueous
ammonia as two further byproducts - these byproducts would have been shipped out
in tank cars. One can see storage tanks that are possibly intended for such
byproducts above the right-most PRR GLa twin hopper, but I don't see any tank
cars
Claus Schlund
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Todd Sullivan
I agree with Claus that the piles in the foreground are likely coke. I've seen coke from West Virginia coking operations, and the color is a gray that is lighter than bituminous coal from which it is made. Bituminous coal is a dark intense black, in part because of the oils (coal tar, coal oil, etc) that are part of the coal. Anthracite is lighter because it is mostly free of the volatile compounds.
Great discussion - thank you all! Todd Sullivan. |
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Allen Cain
This all makes sense but how was the coke in the foreground placed in the pile? I do not see a crane or conveyor?
Allen Cain Modeling The Southern RR in 1955 in HO Scale -- Allen Cain Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale |
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Philip Dove
No doubt whatever in my mind that the heaps are coke. I lit and tended enough coke fires when I was in my teens. Coke is a dark grey with a slightly silverery metallic sheen, it is full of tiny holes like cinder toffee. I agree with Claus that the piles in the foreground are likely coke. I've seen coke from West Virginia coking operations, and the color is a gray that is lighter than bituminous coal from which it is made. Bituminous coal is a dark intense black, in part because of the oils (coal tar, coal oil, etc) that are part of the coal. Anthracite is lighter because it is mostly free of the volatile compounds. |
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Alex Schneider
Are gas holders such as the one in the photo always associated with a manufactured gas plant? Does it follow that they would be obsolete when natural gas took over the market?
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Philip Dove
I can't speak for the USA but in the UK the gas holders usually survived as storage facilities for natural gas, only about 40 years after they stopped making coal gas did they stop using the tanks as storage. Whether this was because the tanks had worn out or because of a change in business model to just in time delivery l don't know. All the structures used to make gas by coking the coal were demolished when natural gas came on stream. Gas works produced tar and chemical by products which needed to be shipped away. Even in the mid19th century local government did not permit you to dump the coal tar into local creeks and rivers. The quantity of tar and chemicals produced was small compared with the coke. Even a very big plant making coal gas would only generate less than a car load a week of coal tar. On Sun, 27 Feb 2022, 12:02 Alexander Schneider Jr, <aschneiderjr@...> wrote: Are gas holders such as the one in the photo always associated with a manufactured gas plant? Does it follow that they would be obsolete when natural gas took over the market? |
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Eric Hansmann
Not always, Alex. Consider them as storage vessels, too.
Here’s a portion of a 1923 Hopkins plat map of Pittsburgh. An Equitable Gas facility is located adjacent to a B&O branch that is inspiring my next layout. There were no coke facilities along this stretch of the river. These were storage tanks.
You can see the tops of these facilities in the center background of this photo. https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.122961.CP
Tragedy struck in late 1927 with a catastrophic explosion leveled the gas holders and several adjacent buildings.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alexander Schneider Jr
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2022 6:03 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Erie boxcar, late 1940s
Are gas holders such as the one in the photo always associated with a manufactured gas plant? Does it follow that they would be obsolete when natural gas took over the market?
Alex Schneider |
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mopacfirst
In some places these storage vessels were called gasometers. To an extent they behaved like water towers, in that they provided a certain pressure to the system. If you see these vessels at different times, you'll notice that the tank part rises and falls (the outer framework acts as a guide for this motion). A pair of these structures was in the background of many photos taken in the LA Union Station area. See http://americanfilmnoir.com/page21.html .
Ron Merrick |
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
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Hi Alex, Eric, and List members,
I agree with Eric - the tanks were storage vessels and were sometimes
located remotely from the plant. With respect to the appropriate era for gas
holders, consider that one owned by Public Service Electric & Gas in
Harrison NJ lasted into the 1990s...
See image attached to this email showing the PSE&G 'Gentle Giant'
gas holder as part of the Newark NJ skyline
Also, the link below has additional info on the Gentle Giant
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
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Hi Allen and List Members,
Perhaps they used a portable conveyor.
Or they used a bulldozer.
Or they used a front end loader.
Or they used a steam crane equipped with a clamshell bucket. I do note a
clamshell bucket laying idle on the ground in the image on the left side,
immediately above the left-most end of the caboose...
Enough options?
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Chris Barkan
Back to the original topic for this thread, the ERIE boxcar, with what I recall have been called "Buckeye" ends. I have seen at least one other photo of a similar ERIE car operating on the NYNH&H. What is the best option for modeling this car in HO scale?
Thanks! -- Chris Barkan Champaign, IL |
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Chris, Those are "Inverse" Buckeye Ends. There are no known commercial parts. I have been fortunate to have Chad Boas mold some for me. The ones on this car are 3/3 type for a 1923 ARA type car. The ones I am having made are 3/4 type for 10' cars of the 30's. I might take the extra end set coming from him and create another mold/casting and remove one rib section. I would use a Red Caboose ARA(X29) box car as the core. Most of those Erie types had radial roofs when built. The roof obviously was replaced with a Murphy raised panel. chadboas@... Rich Christie |
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Rich will you allow,Chad to sell a set of Buckeye ends to a lowly ya’ll guy like me? I’d like to do the Erie 1923 ARA car
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What roof did you use? On Feb 27, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Rich C via groups.io <rhcdmc@...> wrote:
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As an Erie modeler I’d like some also.
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Brian J. Carlson On Feb 27, 2022, at 5:13 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
-- Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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Brian, Fenton and group, I sent some photos of this type of car to Chad, with the hope he can modify his mold/casting for this type of end. Rich Christie |
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Chris Barkan
Thanks Rich, I too would be interested in a set or two of these ends.
-- Chris Barkan Champaign, IL |
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