Rapido Trains Single Sheath Outside Braced Box Car models


robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Has anyone noticed the strange way that Rapido Trains is doing the wood sheathing on their single sheath outside braced box car models that they've announced. It was pointed out too me a couple of days ago by a friend of mine who is involved with tooling and selling models. If you look at this sample in this link:- USRA CPR "Clone" Boxcar - Freight Cars - HO scale - Rapido Trains Inc. you can see that the wood planks have been done in alternating patterns of some set against the braces and some inset. It just not this particular model, the other similar type models they have announced are the same. This is not how the planks are done on the prototype, so why are they doing this? Planks on the prototype can warp in service, but they aren't set in a pattern of one against the steel brace then the next one inset, etc, etc. It's similar to the Titchy USRA single sheath outside braced box car done years ago.
Robert Bogie


Brian Carlson
 

The models that show this are preproduction models.  I asked the same question to Rapido. I’ve been assured that the sheathing is being corrected. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 8, 2022, at 6:28 AM, robertb@... wrote:

Has anyone noticed the strange way that Rapido Trains is doing the wood sheathing on their single sheath outside braced box car models that they've announced. It was pointed out too me a couple of days ago by a friend of mine who is involved with tooling and selling models. If you look at this sample in this link:- USRA CPR "Clone" Boxcar - Freight Cars - HO scale - Rapido Trains Inc. you can see that the wood planks have been done in alternating patterns of some set against the braces and some inset. It just not this particular model, the other similar type models they have announced are the same. This is not how the planks are done on the prototype, so why are they doing this? Planks on the prototype can warp in service, but they aren't set in a pattern of one against the steel brace then the next one inset, etc, etc. It's similar to the Titchy USRA single sheath outside braced box car done years ago.
Robert Bogie

--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

I realised that they are preproduction models, but that's interesting what they assured you of Brian, as that would mean they will have to retool several models to achieve that correction. That would affect the USRA SS Boxcar; USRA CPR Clone Boxcar and the SP B-50 Boxcar. Sounds like an expensive retooling job and incredible blunder to make.

Robert Bogie


Brian Carlson
 

They revise tools all the time. I don’t think the tools cost the same as the used to as far as project costs. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 8, 2022, at 8:41 PM, robertb@... wrote:

I realised that they are preproduction models, but that's interesting what they assured you of Brian, as that would mean they will have to retool several models to achieve that correction. That would affect the USRA SS Boxcar; USRA CPR Clone Boxcar and the SP B-50 Boxcar. Sounds like an expensive retooling job and incredible blunder to make.

Robert Bogie

--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Ray Breyer
 

I believe that revising the siding boards is "steel safe", meaning it's a small milling and polishing job, rather than all new.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Tuesday, March 8, 2022, 07:48:22 PM CST, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


They revise tools all the time. I don’t think the tools cost the same as the used to as far as project costs. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 8, 2022, at 8:41 PM, robertb@... wrote:

I realised that they are preproduction models, but that's interesting what they assured you of Brian, as that would mean they will have to retool several models to achieve that correction. That would affect the USRA SS Boxcar; USRA CPR Clone Boxcar and the SP B-50 Boxcar. Sounds like an expensive retooling job and incredible blunder to make.

Robert Bogie

--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Tim O'Connor
 

:-\

Shades of ancient flame wars around the turn of the century when folks lamented the use of Evergreen
siding for single sheathed and double sheathed box cars! Many Sunshine kits were done that way, sadly.
When the cars were new a single sheathed box car could look nearly as smooth as steel because the boards
fit so well together.

Tim O'Connor


On 3/8/2022 9:29 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I believe that revising the siding boards is "steel safe", meaning it's a small milling and polishing job, rather than all new.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 03:28 AM, robertb@... wrote:
Has anyone noticed the strange way that Rapido Trains is doing the wood sheathing on their single sheath outside braced box car models that they've announced. It was pointed out too me a couple of days ago by a friend of mine who is involved with tooling and selling models. If you look at this sample in this link:- USRA CPR "Clone" Boxcar - Freight Cars - HO scale - Rapido Trains Inc. you can see that the wood planks have been done in alternating patterns of some set against the braces and some inset. It just not this particular model, the other similar type models they have announced are the same. This is not how the planks are done on the prototype, so why are they doing this? Planks on the prototype can warp in service, but they aren't set in a pattern of one against the steel brace then the next one inset, etc, etc. It's similar to the Titchy USRA single sheath outside braced box car done years ago.
Robert Bogie

Are we talking about the image on the Rapido website? The model shown on the website looks to be a Tichy USRA boxcar modified to the CPR clone car.
That siding is pure Tichy to me. I doubt that is what Rapido is going to do in their model. Just a kitbash to show what they intend to do.

Dan Smith


Ray Breyer
 

I have a couple of single sheathed cars that I need to scratch, and I'll be using Frank Hodina's trick of board by board side wall construction, with each board lightly dragged through 150# sandpaper held between my fingers. The end result shows SOME grain, so it's somewhere between 100% smooth and Tichy.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Tuesday, March 8, 2022, 08:56:52 PM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


:-\

Shades of ancient flame wars around the turn of the century when folks lamented the use of Evergreen
siding for single sheathed and double sheathed box cars! Many Sunshine kits were done that way, sadly.
When the cars were new a single sheathed box car could look nearly as smooth as steel because the boards
fit so well together.

Tim O'Connor


On 3/8/2022 9:29 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I believe that revising the siding boards is "steel safe", meaning it's a small milling and polishing job, rather than all new.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 

Ray

OMG -- "wood grain" is what caused the old Freightcars mailing list to morph into STMFC after fighting
broke out over the use of real wood vs polystyrene to represent wood. Byron Rose vs Jim Fixx (Byron
on the side of styrene, Jim fought for wood. It was a bloody conflict that ended in a cease fire after each
side retired from the battle. Fortunately, neither side had nuclear weapons.)

:-)

Tim



On 3/9/2022 10:14 AM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I have a couple of single sheathed cars that I need to scratch, and I'll be using Frank Hodina's trick of board by board side wall construction, with each board lightly dragged through 150# sandpaper held between my fingers. The end result shows SOME grain, so it's somewhere between 100% smooth and Tichy.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Tuesday, March 8, 2022, 08:56:52 PM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


:-\

Shades of ancient flame wars around the turn of the century when folks lamented the use of Evergreen
siding for single sheathed and double sheathed box cars! Many Sunshine kits were done that way, sadly.
When the cars were new a single sheathed box car could look nearly as smooth as steel because the boards
fit so well together.

Tim O'Connor


On 3/8/2022 9:29 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I believe that revising the siding boards is "steel safe", meaning it's a small milling and polishing job, rather than all new.
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


np328
 

We seem to keep circling around to this topic on a regular basis.
See posts go back into the Yahoo STMFC era. 
See posts 139158; 139164; 163462; 179445; These all are lead-ins to prior discussions. 
and there are photos on some of these posts. 
like these two: http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg  and the whole car http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg
I know I have posted other photos of older NP boxcars, hoppers, gons, all with tight, uniform wood sheathing and brought this topic up in the past also. 

     A modeling observation: I recall when Leighton Keiling observed in a 60s(?) MR that benchwork should be stout enough that if a locomotive stalls you can give the nearest table leg a good kick. Later when I and my brother joined a club in the basement of a hobby store in St. Paul, this wisdom had taken purchase with some of the members. Some ideas die hard.  

     Other observations: I know that my studied railroad maintained their cars as Garrison Keiler used to state of the Lake Wobegon kids: above average.  I know from factual study of reports between officers at the corporate level and from Mechanical files notes that my modeled railroad desired to heavy shop their cars about every seven years, heavy shop includes a paint job.  "Trust Reports", which were ledgers of cars bought by bonds floated by the railroad to purchase these cars required they be maintained for the bond trustees, hence the trust reports which was a document that could be called up to provide proof, along with car numbers and classifications of work done.  

     From that to data, to see a heavily weathered and/or distorted sheathing on a car modeled for my road the NP, or things like the NP Monad, be twelve years off after a new scheme came out, raises flags - to me

Yes, you could find a photo however I would have to question if that photo is typical or an outlier.
Then we get into the other argument of: Do models of exceptions an exceptional modeled railroad make? 

You can read Al Westerfield's reply in one of the above strings. That echos a comment Steve of F&C replied to me also. 
We here - look to accuracy, however the toy trainers also make enough purchases that it influences the market.     
           
 Your railroads history and practices regarding the upkeep of their rolling stock of course, could be quite different.  I've told you about the NP's. I'd like to hear about your railroad. 

Yes, these conversations well predate even the Yahoo STMFC.
     I recall , IIRC, Paul Janz who used to quite heavily weather SP model steam locomotives, and sent the photos into model magazine publishers, which in turn, generated mail to the publications he sent the photos to both pro and con.                                                                                                                                        James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Earl Tuson
 

Tim,

But wasn't it Richard's "train set bozos" comment that really did the FCL in?

:D

Earl Tuson


Tim O'Connor
 

Earl

LOL ! I'd forgotten that little dust up.

Here was my defense of Richard Hendrickson on 12/10/2000.
It was hardly the last word on the subject !! :-D

-------------------
To: The Freightcars List <freightcars@...>
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@...>
Subject: [FC] An apology? What for? And to whom?

What exactly was R.H. supposed to apologize for? As far
as I can tell, Richard simply disparaged a pretty vaguely
described group of nameless "trainset bozos". In no way can
anyone on this list accurately construe that to be a personal
attack -- unless in fact, they believe that term applies to
them. Who here does? This is political correctness without a
clue -- the P.C. police demanding a formal apology on behalf
of an imaginary offended party.

I consider the term "trainset bozo" to be just as acceptable
as "rivet counter", a term that is almost never used in a
supportive, nurturing manner. Why aren't the "vesties" down
on their knees begging our forgiveness for all the slings and
arrows we have suffered with? (Maybe because they don't care!)

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

-------------------

On 3/9/2022 9:38 PM, Earl Tuson wrote:
Tim,

But wasn't it Richard's "train set bozos" comment that really did the FCL in?

:D

Earl Tuson

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tony Thompson
 

But wasn't it Richard's "train set bozos" comment that really did the FCL in?

That comment certainly raised temperatures, for sure, but I think it was some careless comments of a more personal nature, which the then-moderator refused to notice, that caused many of us to bail. Fair and consistent moderation is essential to civilized lists, IMO.

Tony Thompson




Bill Schneider
 

Right... regarding the.... errr..... boards....

My first project with Rapido was the GARX meat reefer. That was criticized on some groups as having too big a gap between the boards. In discussions with our tool shops since they told me that they were not able to do much smaller (a stock answer!), so this time I thought that I'd get clever and try something different on the USRA car to represent the boards - and yes, inspired a bit by the Tichy model. Well..... It didn't work! 

The models shown on the web site are first test shots wit ha quick coat of paint, and this whole discussion highlights teh problem with showing early samples! We are re-doing the sides, along with changing several other details like the stirrup steps. So Robert, Brian is correct (I was the one who told him that), and no it is not an expensive re-tooling job, and the SP boxcar has waiting to start tooling (teh design is compete) until this is worked out.

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains


Bruce Griffin
 

Bill,

Thank you for jumping into the discussion. And thank you and your team at Rapido for transparency. We all want to know more and I know it’s hard to have a project, any project of any type, critiqued while it is still in process. For me and hopefully many, it adds to our faith in your product development process. Good wishes on continued success. 
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Thanks Bill for comments/updates here and on facebook. Brian didn't mention who he had obtained the info from. Great to see that you are working it on it and that a better model will result in the end. Looking forward to them coming out.

Regards,

Robert Bogie


----- Original Message -----
From:
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To:
<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Cc:

Sent:
Thu, 10 Mar 2022 10:34:38 -0800
Subject:
Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido Trains Single Sheath Outside Braced Box Car models


Right... regarding the.... errr..... boards....

My first project with Rapido was the GARX meat reefer. That was criticized on some groups as having too big a gap between the boards. In discussions with our tool shops since they told me that they were not able to do much smaller (a stock answer!), so this time I thought that I'd get clever and try something different on the USRA car to represent the boards - and yes, inspired a bit by the Tichy model. Well..... It didn't work! 

The models shown on the web site are first test shots wit ha quick coat of paint, and this whole discussion highlights teh problem with showing early samples! We are re-doing the sides, along with changing several other details like the stirrup steps. So Robert, Brian is correct (I was the one who told him that), and no it is not an expensive re-tooling job, and the SP boxcar has waiting to start tooling (teh design is compete) until this is worked out.

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains


Brian Carlson
 

Brian knows people, Brian knows not to name drop. Brian was outed. Brian goes back to work on F30a’s by Rapido. :)

Brian J. Carlson

On Mar 10, 2022, at 10:29 PM, robertb@... wrote:

Thanks Bill for comments/updates here and on facebook. Brian didn't mention who he had obtained the info from. Great to see that you are working it on it and that a better model will result in the end. Looking forward to them coming out.

Regards,

Robert Bogie
--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Bill Schneider
 

It was ME who was name doppring. Sorry Brian.... :>)

Bill Schneider


Clark Propst
 

Here’s a car with boards like the Tichy car. There’s a prototype for everything ; )

Clark

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Tim O'Connor
 


That car is nearly 40 years old. Over a lifetime boards may be replaced and of
course being wood the boards will expand and contract many times causing them
to go out of smooth alignment. The AGE of a car is always important for modelers.

Tim O'Connor

On 3/11/2022 8:52 AM, Clark Propst via groups.io wrote:


Here’s a car with boards like the Tichy car. There’s a prototype for everything ; )

Clark


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--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts