FORGOTTEN TREASURES


WILLIAM PARDIE
 


IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.

Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.

I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.

I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Dave Nelson
 

Bill, was there an issue for May, 1990?  It’s the only issue I don’t have and I’ve often wondered whether there really was a May ’90 issue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

 

 

IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.

 

Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.

 

I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.

 

I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 


Scott H. Haycock
 

Hi Dave,

There was no May '90 Issue.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 03/30/2022 10:45 PM Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:


Bill, was there an issue for May, 1990?  It’s the only issue I don’t have and I’ve often wondered whether there really was a May ’90 issue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES



IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.


Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.


I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.


I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone




WILLIAM PARDIE
 

The May 1990 issue was lost on the way to the publisher.  I was quite disappo8nted as thus issue was to contain part two of the artucle on Southern Pacific P-10 Pacific's.  A project near and dear to me.

Years later I met Bob Hundman at Naperville.  I bought the topic up.  Bob told me the story and was more than extremely gracious.  He sent me the photographic material that was to accompany the article.

This story illustrates not only the quality that Bob possessed but the same caring and generosity shared by most all of the people who are associated with this hobby. 

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Scott H. Haycock" <shhaycock@...>
Date: 3/30/22 6:55 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

Hi Dave,

There was no May '90 Issue.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 03/30/2022 10:45 PM Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:


Bill, was there an issue for May, 1990?  It’s the only issue I don’t have and I’ve often wondered whether there really was a May ’90 issue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES



IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.


Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.


I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.


I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone




Scott H. Haycock
 

Hi Bill,

MM was the magazine that first sparked my interest in prototype equipment modeling, and the overall idea of modeling from the prototype, as much as possible.

Do you know what happened to the end of the Southern Deck Truss project?

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 03/31/2022 12:42 AM WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


The May 1990 issue was lost on the way to the publisher.  I was quite disappo8nted as thus issue was to contain part two of the artucle on Southern Pacific P-10 Pacific's.  A project near and dear to me.

Years later I met Bob Hundman at Naperville.  I bought the topic up.  Bob told me the story and was more than extremely gracious.  He sent me the photographic material that was to accompany the article.

This story illustrates not only the quality that Bob possessed but the same caring and generosity shared by most all of the people who are associated with this hobby. 

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Scott H. Haycock" <shhaycock@...>
Date: 3/30/22 6:55 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

Hi Dave,

There was no May '90 Issue.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 03/30/2022 10:45 PM Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:


Bill, was there an issue for May, 1990?  It’s the only issue I don’t have and I’ve often wondered whether there really was a May ’90 issue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES



IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.


Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.


I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.


I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.


Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone




Dave Nelson
 

Thanks!

 

That means I have all of them.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott H. Haycock
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 9:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

 

Hi Dave,

 

There was no May '90 Issue.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 03/30/2022 10:45 PM Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:

 

 

Bill, was there an issue for May, 1990?  It’s the only issue I don’t have and I’ve often wondered whether there really was a May ’90 issue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 7:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

 

 

IMHO there was never before or after a publication of the quality and depth of subject as Bob Hundman's Mainline Modeler in our hobby. The articles, drawings, how to's and prototype information is unmatched.  The twenty plus years of this magazines  run gave us more information than we can ever absorbance apply.

 

Why, you ask, am I bringing this up?  I subscribed to this publication from the first to the last issue.  Many items were skipped over and forgotten during this time as they were not pertinent back then.  This morning I had to find an article for a current project that I an working on.  Each issue of this magazine featured a listing of the artucles in each issue from day one.  Not five minutes into this venture I had to get a note pad to record forgotten items that I now need.  After twenty minutes when I found the article I has listed twenty five articles to retrieve.

 

I know that many of you have this magazine digitized.  I encourage you to look at this periodically and you will find the answers to many questions appearing on this list.

 

I have to spend less time with Judge Judy and more with this endeavor.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 


Dave Nelson
 

MM had its own kind of flaws… none of the drawings were dimensioned.  Anybody working in gauges not HO were just SOL. Bob assumed people would lay styrene right on the page.  He never allowed casting masters to be made from his own, rather fine looking models.  That could have been another source of revenue.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott H. Haycock
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

 

Hi Bill,

 

MM was the magazine that first sparked my interest in prototype equipment modeling, and the overall idea of modeling from the prototype, as much as possible.

 

Do you know what happened to the end of the Southern Deck Truss project?

 

Scott Haycock


Jack Mullen
 

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 01:40 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:
MM had its own kind of flaws… none of the drawings were dimensioned. 
Dave,  that's simply dead wrong.

As a check on memory, I grabbed a dozen or so issues from boxes in the basement.  Several drawings in each, often with two by Bob himself. *None* found without dimensions. A couple lacked vertical dimensions. A structure drawing by another drafter had a dimensioned floor plan, but no dimensions on the elevations.

Anybody working in gauges not HO were just SOL.
Seriously?  I model in O.  I built actual models using MM plans. Scale rules, proportional dividers, and even copy machines that can rescale copies have been around for a long time.  

Indeed,  errors and deficiencies can be found in MM drawings, and there are some recurring flaws which have been discussed on this list and others in the past. But your broad statement just ain't so.

Jack Mullen


lrkdbn
 

Yes, there were mistakes and omissions in MLM, but overall it was an extraordinarily good magazine. I think anyone who has seriously pursued this hobby of railroad history is well aware of how easily we can make errors no matter how hard we try for accuracy. I was really sorry to see it go.
Larry King


ed_mines
 

I subscribed from the second issue to the last; it was a wonderful magazine.

I always wondered why Richard Hendrickson didn't like the magazine/Hundman.


Tony Thompson
 

Ed Mines wrote:

I always wondered why Richard Hendrickson didn't like the magazine/Hundman.
Because Hundman wouldn’t publish Richard’s letter, responding to Hundman's glowing review of the just-introduced tank car kit by Bill Gould (later produced by Tichy and still available). Richard pointed out that this “USRA” tank car was never actually built, though it was a beautifully designed and executed kit. And not only was Richard’s letter rejected, but Hundman stated (I’ve seen the letter) that Mainine Modeler never made mistakes. This was, let us say, a position that Richard did not accept.

Tony Thompson
tony@...


Ken Adams
 

Is there a readily available, easy to use electronic index to MM articles. I haven't found one yet. 

I didn't subscribe.  I did buy almost every issue in my LHS up until about 2001 when my mainline modeling interest waned and I went off on a narrow gauge tangent in F scale for about 6 years. by then MM was gone.
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Charlie Vlk
 

All-

 

I have a Bachelor of Science in Architectural Engineering and became a Illinois Registered Architect so am no stranger to a drafting board and T-square.  I was trained with wood pencils and ink ruling pens and spent many hours doing working drawings on velum cloth.

But I am still in awe of the likes of Bob Hundman and J. Harold Giesel who were the Deans of Model Railroad Presentation Drawings.

In my second career in the Model Railroad Industry I prepared a few drawings from photographs, field measurements and railroad source material for factory use and have a good  of the amount of blood, sweat and tears that go into making such drawings.   The work that I did was not meant for publication in a magazine and as such was not done in ink with the line weight conventions that made drawings in MM, MR, and RMC so striking.

No, those drawings were not always perfect.  But knowing the amount of work that goes into them I am astonished that the rate of production of those two gentlemen resulted in work that nobody seems to be matching today.

If you have looked at older Railroad Industry Journals the inspiration for their work is apparent.  The craft and artistry in mechanical drawings, presentation drawings and even realistic perspective renderings is breathtaking.

The work of Bob Hundman and J. Harold Giesel  should get more credit than either have received and I am sure there are others who also should be recognized such as Linn Wescott who did some workmanlike drawings in his early career at Model Railroader.

I know that some drawings done using CAD are being published occasionally but, while they might be more accurate (most are “modern” stuff that I don’t know well enough to judge) they sure don’t have the presence that the old pen and ink drawings had.

I find it interesting that, in spite of the advantages of computer drawing programs the content of drawings seems to have diminished in the magazines and I am not sure why this might be….

 

Charlie Vlk 


al whitecar
 

Charlie

Where did you go to school to get your degree in Arce? I went to Cal Poly school of architectural engineering and have a  BS degree. I am a registered structural engineer.

Al Whitecar

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2022 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FORGOTTEN TREASURES

 

All-

 

I have a Bachelor of Science in Architectural Engineering and became a Illinois Registered Architect so am no stranger to a drafting board and T-square.  I was trained with wood pencils and ink ruling pens and spent many hours doing working drawings on velum cloth.

But I am still in awe of the likes of Bob Hundman and J. Harold Giesel who were the Deans of Model Railroad Presentation Drawings.

In my second career in the Model Railroad Industry I prepared a few drawings from photographs, field measurements and railroad source material for factory use and have a good  of the amount of blood, sweat and tears that go into making such drawings.   The work that I did was not meant for publication in a magazine and as such was not done in ink with the line weight conventions that made drawings in MM, MR, and RMC so striking.

No, those drawings were not always perfect.  But knowing the amount of work that goes into them I am astonished that the rate of production of those two gentlemen resulted in work that nobody seems to be matching today.

If you have looked at older Railroad Industry Journals the inspiration for their work is apparent.  The craft and artistry in mechanical drawings, presentation drawings and even realistic perspective renderings is breathtaking.

The work of Bob Hundman and J. Harold Giesel  should get more credit than either have received and I am sure there are others who also should be recognized such as Linn Wescott who did some workmanlike drawings in his early career at Model Railroader.

I know that some drawings done using CAD are being published occasionally but, while they might be more accurate (most are “modern” stuff that I don’t know well enough to judge) they sure don’t have the presence that the old pen and ink drawings had.

I find it interesting that, in spite of the advantages of computer drawing programs the content of drawings seems to have diminished in the magazines and I am not sure why this might be….

 

Charlie Vlk 


Curt Fortenberry
 


I'll second what Charlie said.  I did a couple of drawings for MM (I'm a civil engineer and started out using ink as well), and before I started Bob gave me his tips on how he approached the drawings.  His drawings were art.  Only my last drawing was done on the computer in CAD.

All drawings have an error somewhere, can't be helped.  The drawings I produced, as were many of Bob's, were traces of the original source, and sometimes you just had to make an educated guess and fill in the blanks.  Bob would sometimes pass on a subject if there wasn't enough information.  He still produces but he's in his 80's now and he said he's starting to slow down.

Curt Fortenberry


Tony Thompson
 

Curt Fortenberry wrote:

All drawings have an error somewhere, can't be helped. The drawings I produced, as were many of Bob's, were traces of the original source, and sometimes you just had to make an educated guess and fill in the blanks.
You all are misunderstanding the point. Yes, Hundman’s drawings are handsome, and yes, he produced a great lot of them, and yes, mistakes happen. My own problem with Mr. Hundman is that he would never admit a mistake or omission, nor allow any correction. A letter containing even a faint criticism of MM would not be published. As a result, a number of MM errors, doubtless unintentional and perfectly correctable, were kept quiet by this policy.

Tony Thompson
tony@...


Andy Carlson
 

I lost a friend of 40+ years back in 2020. He had an interesting life with many interests, not the least was scratchbuilding locomotives, most were in N scale. Through the numerous shared NMRA conventions, my friend had many visits with Bob Hundman and they both were avid Norfolk and Western fans. Bob bought many of my friend's N scale scratch built steam engines.

At one convention, which I also attended, my friend told Bob that his drawing of a certain articulated steam locomotive would have hampered any scratch building from his drawings. Seems the problem was there was no auxillary drawing of the sand dome hatch and none of the published photos offered a helpful view. Bob asked if my friend had made the locomotive, which was answered with a yes but with some unanswered ideas of the sand dome cover. Bob's response was that of the several 1000 issues that drawing was in, probably only one locomotive was scratch built from it. He said, rightly, I agree, that the drawings are for the most part simply eye candy with very little expectation that any use will come from the drawings.

Oh, bye the way, Giesel's M.R. drawings were commonly derided for their gross errors, obvious from viewing the prototype pictures included in these articles.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022, 02:39:57 PM PDT, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


> Curt Fortenberry  wrote:
>
> All drawings have an error somewhere, can't be helped.  The drawings I produced, as were many of Bob's, were traces of the original source, and sometimes you just had to make an educated guess and fill in the blanks. 

You all are misunderstanding the point. Yes, Hundman’s drawings are handsome, and yes, he produced a great lot of them, and yes, mistakes happen. My own problem with Mr. Hundman is that he would never admit a mistake or omission, nor allow any correction. A letter containing even a faint criticism of MM would not be published. As a result, a number of MM errors, doubtless unintentional and perfectly correctable, were kept quiet by this policy.

Tony Thompson
tony@...







Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 01:46 PM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

I find it interesting that, in spite of the advantages of computer drawing programs the content of drawings seems to have diminished in the magazines and I am not sure why this might be….

Because nobody builds anything from drawings anymore, Charlie. The magazines got tired of wasting space on drawings that only two pattern makers actually used, to craft masters for resin kits, which only a couple hundred modelers actually assemble. Scale drawings don't sell magazines, and they don't sell advertising, so why waste the space? Meanwhile, with all the archives of 'real railroad drawings', to borrow a line from Athearn advertising of years ago, that have become available, the pattern makers just decided to cut out the middleman with his errors, and go right to the source.

As to the 'French shading' style popular for published drawings, it's certainly doable in CAD, even easier in Illustrator. The main features are to use different line weights on the top and bottom of projecting features; CAD software dating back to the eighties had methods to map different line segments to different pens, and thus different line weights. The other notable feature was to draw domed features like rivets with a segment of the circle missing at the top left, again easily doable in any drafting or illustration package that allows a feature to be drawn once and copied multiple times.

The real reason you don't see it anymore is in my first paragraph.

Dennis (who had a few pen 'n ink drawings published) Storzek


 


Kenneth Montero
 

Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Historical Society sells a DVD containing all of the Mainline Modeler issues for $89.95.  Find the "Catalog" link near the bottom of the home page, click on it, then scroll to the bottom of that page.

Ken Montero

PS For folks looking for specific back issues, I may be able to help you find them for sale. Please contact me off-line at: va661midlo at comcast dot net.

On 04/05/2022 1:55 PM Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


Is there a readily available, easy to use electronic index to MM articles. I haven't found one yet. 

I didn't subscribe.  I did buy almost every issue in my LHS up until about 2001 when my mainline modeling interest waned and I went off on a narrow gauge tangent in F scale for about 6 years. by then MM was gone.
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Scott H. Haycock
 

How is the quality of the scans? Are the pages readable? Are the images acceptable? 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 04/05/2022 4:38 PM Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Historical Society sells a DVD containing all of the Mainline Modeler issues for $89.95.  Find the "Catalog" link near the bottom of the home page, click on it, then scroll to the bottom of that page.

Ken Montero

PS For folks looking for specific back issues, I may be able to help you find them for sale. Please contact me off-line at: va661midlo at comcast dot net.
On 04/05/2022 1:55 PM Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


Is there a readily available, easy to use electronic index to MM articles. I haven't found one yet. 

I didn't subscribe.  I did buy almost every issue in my LHS up until about 2001 when my mainline modeling interest waned and I went off on a narrow gauge tangent in F scale for about 6 years. by then MM was gone.
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io