Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
Folks:
The most recent photo dump posted to the Fallen Flags site has two photos of freight car interest:
The “RDG 2-8-0 2048” file shows a poultry car immediately behind the engine. Cannot see the name/number, but the photo establishes a time and place for such a car to appear (Reading, PA 4/31).
The “RDG 2-10-2 3001” file shows the big engine coupled onto the rear of a train. Speculating now, it appears the engine is in helper service and ready to start a shoving move. Yet the car immediately ahead is a four-wheel bobber caboose. Not sure if I have ever seen a photo of this type of big rear-end helper/small four-wheel caboose combo this late in the game (Reading, PA 5/32).
Tom Devenny
East Norriton, PA
The “RDG 2-8-0 2048” file shows a poultry car immediately behind the engine. Cannot see the name/number, but the photo establishes a time and place for such a car to appear (Reading, PA 4/31).
The “RDG 2-10-2 3001” file shows the big engine coupled onto the rear of a train. Speculating now, it appears the engine is in helper service and ready to start a shoving move. Yet the car immediately ahead is a four-wheel bobber caboose. Not sure if I have ever seen a photo of this type of big rear-end helper/small four-wheel caboose combo this late in the game (Reading, PA 5/32).
----- Original Message -----From: Alice DevennySent: Friday, April 08, 2022 7:24 AMSubject: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose ImagesFolks:
The most recent photo dump posted to the Fallen Flags site has two photos of freight car interest:
The “RDG 2-8-0 2048” file shows a poultry car immediately behind the engine. Cannot see the name/number, but the photo establishes a time and place for such a car to appear (Reading, PA 4/31).
The “RDG 2-10-2 3001” file shows the big engine coupled onto the rear of a train. Speculating now, it appears the engine is in helper service and ready to start a shoving move. Yet the car immediately ahead is a four-wheel bobber caboose. Not sure if I have ever seen a photo of this type of big rear-end helper/small four-wheel caboose combo this late in the game (Reading, PA 5/32).
Tom Devenny
East Norriton, PA
Hi Tom and List Members,To make it easier for others, here are some links...The “RDG 2-8-0 2048” file shows a poultry car immediately behind the engine. Cannot see the name/number, but the photo establishes a time and place for such a car to appear (Reading, PA 4/31).
The “RDG 2-10-2 3001” file shows the big engine coupled onto the rear of a train. Speculating now, it appears the engine is in helper service and ready to start a shoving move. Yet the car immediately ahead is a four-wheel bobber caboose. Not sure if I have ever seen a photo of this type of big rear-end helper/small four-wheel caboose combo this late in the game (Reading, PA 5/32).
Enjoy!Claus Schlund----- Original Message -----From: Alice DevennySent: Friday, April 08, 2022 7:24 AMSubject: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose ImagesFolks:
The most recent photo dump posted to the Fallen Flags site has two photos of freight car interest:
The “RDG 2-8-0 2048” file shows a poultry car immediately behind the engine. Cannot see the name/number, but the photo establishes a time and place for such a car to appear (Reading, PA 4/31).
The “RDG 2-10-2 3001” file shows the big engine coupled onto the rear of a train. Speculating now, it appears the engine is in helper service and ready to start a shoving move. Yet the car immediately ahead is a four-wheel bobber caboose. Not sure if I have ever seen a photo of this type of big rear-end helper/small four-wheel caboose combo this late in the game (Reading, PA 5/32).
Tom Devenny
East Norriton, PA
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2022 11:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
| CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
|
-Chuck Greene
Chuck,
Not all "bobbers" were the same. The critical component was the underframe. While many were built with wood underframes, the type lasted long enough to have some built with steel underframes (such as the PRR's ND class). The "caboose laws" of the mid nineteen teens were typically focused on underframe construction, body length (which also caught many bobbers), accommodations, and platforms. Some railroads retrofitted steel underframes to their bobbers in response, while others rebuilt the cars into longer cars with 4 wheel trucks (e.g. PRR's conversion of classes NC and NE into N6A and N6B cabin cars).
Regards,Bruce SmithAuburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of bounce+13731+191967+676026+2098347@groups.io <bounce+13731+191967+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2022 11:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose ImagesYipes! Weren't all the "bobber" cabooses wooden? Seems like that 2-10-2 would've made toothpicks out of it!
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
-Chuck Greene
Charlie Duckworth
Omaha, Ne.
Yipes! Weren't all the "bobber" cabooses wooden? Seems like that 2-10-2 would've made toothpicks out of it!I just looked at the photo again. With a brakeman on the tender footboard and the fireman looking back, I'd hazard a guess that the helper was caught as he was picking the cab off the train to get it safely behind the tender.
Dennis Storzek
I suspect many 4-wheel “bobbers” that survived in-service into the late steam years had a steel underframe from an earlier upgrade. By the 1940s, I would think many were in local service on branches out of yards or for industrial switching districts.
A look through the January 1943 ORER indicates the B&O had a few of these shortys on the roster. Twelve cars were in the C501 to C1394 number series and another dozen in the C1700 to C1776 series. They listed 549 of these cabooses in the October 1926 ORER. They also listed 737 8-wheel cabooses.
The Reading lists 128 of the 4-wheel cabooses under a couple of number series in the 1943 ORER. The numbers are different for 1926 with 478 4-wheel and 22 8-wheel cabooses for the Reading.
Not all railroads listed their cabooses in the ORER so they can be difficult to track through the years. Sometimes they are listed in the Recapitulation of Car Equipment section after all the listings and notes. But they aren’t always divided by the number of wheels. The Pennsy is an example of this with 3335 cabooses listed under Non-Revenue Equipment in the Recapitulation section. And the wording there is cabooses, not cabins.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 6:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
Chuck,
Not all "bobbers" were the same. The critical component was the underframe. While many were built with wood underframes, the type lasted long enough to have some built with steel underframes (such as the PRR's ND class). The "caboose laws" of the mid nineteen teens were typically focused on underframe construction, body length (which also caught many bobbers), accommodations, and platforms. Some railroads retrofitted steel underframes to their bobbers in response, while others rebuilt the cars into longer cars with 4 wheel trucks (e.g. PRR's conversion of classes NC and NE into N6A and N6B cabin cars).
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Earl Tuson
Also, as Bruce posted above and we have talked about this here prior, steel underframes were largely mandated for cabooses over 24 feet, (in mainline use, or where they could be pushed by helpers.) And shorter ones were either retired or rebuilt. Retired by reason of the unions demanding them to be gone or them simply wearing out. And yes, wooden under-framed cars were still allowed in local service, yard service, and other jobs where the underframes would not be so stressed.
I recall reading however not copying a set of letters where a new Jamestown, ND trainmaster observed the branch local up to Carrington doubling its freight out of town. The branch climbs a severe grade up and out. The trainmaster asked to call an investigation as the crew claimed extra pay for this because the grade was within yard limits and a yard switcher was readily available to push. The trainmaster backed off after the union rep brought up that the caboose had a wooden underframe and pushing was not allowed. Some steel under-framed cabooses were then relocated to this yard for service on the branch.
On the NP you might see a wooden caboose with "one in front and one on" between two articulateds however
> the only way to be certain of the underframe would be to check the numbers and date of the photo. <
Wooden cabooses with original wood underframe and original arch bar trucks intact were retired as late as 1965 on the NP that I have found. ALL of this legal. Because they did not go offline and were in yard service.
James Dick - Roseville, MN
As the upper left corner of the equipment diagram shows, they built 200 between 1905 and 1907. However, they turned around and converted them to 8-wheel in 1909. I believe they were made slightly longer and turned into the 1200-series cabooses.
The other interesting thing in the photo is the gondolas coupled to the caboose. They had to be carrying something with very low density, given the very high sides on the fourth hopper.
Chuck Soule
Thanks for those files, Chuck. Further evidence that reveals the differences in 4-wheel caboose appearances. While they had two axles and four wheels, there were lots of detail nuances. The cupola height stands out to my eye and I like that fascia board.
Sadly, the Reading 4-wheel caboose has been produced in plastic by a few companies and it is not representative of all the shortys that were used.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 5:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
My apologies - I dragged the photos into the box, but forgot to click "add"
Hope they are attached this time.
Chuck Soule
Eric and All-
I know that Mantua had a brass kit and later plastic version of the Reading Bobber.
I am not sure if Rivarossi had one or just used Mantua bodies.
I’m not sure if anyone has ever identified the prototype for he Bachmann cars (HO and N) and the N Arnold Rapido car was a B&O prototype.
The CB&Q NM2 has not been made in any scale as a production model or kit but has been done fairly well in two sizes in cast metal…as a pencil sharpener and key fob.
Even though it is an Eastern prototype I always thought the Reading job was rather nicely proportioned.
The NP car looks very much similar to the CB&Q NM2, both were built around the same time frame (1904-1906).
Charlie Vlk
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
Thanks for those files, Chuck. Further evidence that reveals the differences in 4-wheel caboose appearances. While they had two axles and four wheels, there were lots of detail nuances. The cupola height stands out to my eye and I like that fascia board.
Sadly, the Reading 4-wheel caboose has been produced in plastic by a few companies and it is not representative of all the shortys that were used.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Soule
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 5:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Poultry Car and Bobber Caboose Images
My apologies - I dragged the photos into the box, but forgot to click "add"
Hope they are attached this time.
Chuck Soule