Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question


Charlie Duckworth
 

So as the group knows it’s a slippery slope.  First I  decide to build a RI rebuilt boxcar from Chad Boaz parts but I need the underframe from a Accurail wood reefer.  I buy the reefer and decide not to waste the carbody so I buy a Tichy PFE underframe for it with truss rods but have no fishing line. Off to the store and now have 700 yards of .012 fishing line….

The Accurail reefer will be transformed into a WFEX car.  I want to do the truss rod version where they are angled towards the ends.  I’ve got Tichy queen posts and they are 10” tall. Anyone know the height of the ones in this photo?  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


O Fenton Wells
 

Charlie, not sure but I may have the Sunshine instructions for this if not I'm sure someone does and mybe it will be there.  I will check my Bill Welch notes as well to see if he discusses these.
Fenton

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 11:28 AM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
My iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Charlie Duckworth
 

Thanks !

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 10:52 AM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Charlie, not sure but I may have the Sunshine instructions for this if not I'm sure someone does and mybe it will be there.  I will check my Bill Welch notes as well to see if he discusses these.
Fenton

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 11:28 AM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
My iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



--


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Robert kirkham
 

i think you will need a fishing rod and a net next . . . 

On May 1, 2022, at 8:26 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

So as the group knows it’s a slippery slope.  First I  decide to build a RI rebuilt boxcar from Chad Boaz parts but I need the underframe from a Accurail wood reefer.  I buy the reefer and decide not to waste the carbody so I buy a Tichy PFE underframe for it with truss rods but have no fishing line. Off to the store and now have 700 yards of .012 fishing line….
The Accurail reefer will be transformed into a WFEX car.  I want to do the truss rod version where they are angled towards the ends.  I’ve got Tichy queen posts and they are 10” tall. Anyone know the height of the ones in this photo?  <52914BD1-68A1-4521-B1E2-1E29FDDF78E6.jpeg>


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


O Fenton Wells
 

Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Charlie Duckworth
 

Fenton
I’ve got this issue and also found two presentations on the web that Bill gave.  My rough measurements using the door hinge spacing on photos and the Accurail reefer is I’m coming up with the queen posts being 18” tall.  I’ll make up one from the Tichy ones I have and see how it looks compared to the photos. 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 1:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


O Fenton Wells
 

As Clark says, we don't need no stinking measurements ;>)


On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 3:15 PM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
Fenton
I’ve got this issue and also found two presentations on the web that Bill gave.  My rough measurements using the door hinge spacing on photos and the Accurail reefer is I’m coming up with the queen posts being 18” tall.  I’ll make up one from the Tichy ones I have and see how it looks compared to the photos. 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 1:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Scott H. Haycock
 

Hi Charlie,

If you compare the queenposts to something of known dimension; in this case the wheels, they look more like 16''-18'' to me.

If you can print out a flat-scan of that photo, a straight edge and a pencil can be used to define the top of the wheels. The bottom of the wheels are defined by the rail.

Measure that distance with a set of calipers adjacent to one of the queenposts and write that down. Now measure the queenpost itself and write that down.

Since we are looking for a dimension shorter than the known number (33''), divide the smaller number by the the larger to get the percentage of the unknown dimension. Now multiply that number by 33 to get the length you are looking for.
This should get you within an inch or so.

This is one of those exercises that takes less time to do than to explain! Try it and you'll see the logic of the math, making it a useful thing to know when working from photos, or plans of unknown scale.  


Also, I seem to remember Grandt line making queenposts is several lengths. Didn't another company buy their line of parts?
 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent




Charlie Duckworth
 

Scott
That’s somewhat what I did and came up with 18” as well.   Grandt Line parts is now part of San Juan Details and they show a 3”, 5” and 10” queen post set. I have several of the 10” so I’ll cut these up to make an 18”.  I’ll make one and place it on the car at the angle and see if it looks like the prototype. 

Charlie 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 2:54 PM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
Hi Charlie,

If you compare the queenposts to something of known dimension; in this case the wheels, they look more like 16''-18'' to me.

If you can print out a flat-scan of that photo, a straight edge and a pencil can be used to define the top of the wheels. The bottom of the wheels are defined by the rail.

Measure that distance with a set of calipers adjacent to one of the queenposts and write that down. Now measure the queenpost itself and write that down.

Since we are looking for a dimension shorter than the known number (33''), divide the smaller number by the the larger to get the percentage of the unknown dimension. Now multiply that number by 33 to get the length you are looking for.
This should get you within an inch or so.

This is one of those exercises that takes less time to do than to explain! Try it and you'll see the logic of the math, making it a useful thing to know when working from photos, or plans of unknown scale.  


Also, I seem to remember Grandt line making queenposts is several lengths. Didn't another company buy their line of parts?
 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent




--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Ed Walters
 

Perhaps also worth taking a look at the instructions for the Resin Car Works mini-kit, which is, I think, a very similar project to the one you're undertaking? http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_minikit2-01_FGEX_trussrod.htm


Charlie Duckworth
 

Ed
That’s the reference  I’m using to build my car.  (Plus the Speedwitch book).  

I’ve got the underframe finished, removed the cast on ladders and hand grabs and described those areas. and now working on the queen posts.  Wife is out of town so lots of unsupervised time. 

Charlie 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 4:48 PM Ed Walters <edward.m.walters@...> wrote:
Perhaps also worth taking a look at the instructions for the Resin Car Works mini-kit, which is, I think, a very similar project to the one you're undertaking? http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_minikit2-01_FGEX_trussrod.htm


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 01:46 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
That’s somewhat what I did and came up with 18” as well.   Grandt Line parts is now part of San Juan Details and they show a 3”, 5” and 10” queen post set. I have several of the 10” so I’ll cut these up to make an 18”.  I’ll make one and place it on the car at the angle and see if it looks like the prototype. 
 
18" sounds way long for a freight car. Are you including the height of the needle beam (typically 8" to 10") in that figure? Can you post a pix of the prototype?

Dennis Storzek
 


Charlie Duckworth
 

Dennis
Heres two images from Bill Welch’s article on the angled queen posts.  Appreciate your thoughts on the length  

Charlie 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 05:29 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
Heres two images from Bill Welch’s article on the angled queen posts.  Appreciate your thoughts on the length  

Charlie 
Well, since these cars have full wood underframes, you have to go back in time to find any useful dimensions. Looking through the 1909 Car Builder's Dictionary:
https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdic00mast
I find that it was common for such underframes to have the bottom of the sills 39" - 40" above the rail, and having the truss rod drop 24" below the sill was not uncommon, which would put it 15" - 16" above the rail, which would put it in line or slightly below the center of the wheels, which does appear to be the case from the upper photo you posted. The lower photo appears to be almost perpendicular to the horizontal plane of the bottom portion of the rods. Try this, print it out big, and measure, in line with the siding grooves, from the sill to the rail. Divide that number by 40, and use the result for the value of one inch, and use that to determine the depth of the rods below the sill, also the depth of the channel section needle beams. that will be as close as you can come, lacking a drawing of the underframe.

Dennis Storzek


Jack Mullen
 

I did more or less as Dennis described, except starting with wheel diameter to establish scale, and estimating the adjustment to project about 2' forward to the plane of the side. Then vertical measurements gave 8" for the needle beam, which is plausible,  and about 15" bottom of needle beam to centerline of truss rod. 
As a check on reasonableness, that scale gives 12" door sill to bottom of side sill, 7" reporting marks, and 10" WESTERN FRUIT EXPRESS. Sill to top of rail seems to be about 40", again guesstimating projection of the TOR to the side plane. All these derived dimensions are of course somewhat approximate, but plausible values.  YMMV.


Jack Mullen


Charlie Duckworth
 

Jack and Dennis
Thanks for the input; now to manufacture eight queen posts.  

Due to the angle of the post and the tension from the fishing line I’ve flatten some brass wire to start filing into a post. I’ll use plastic shapes to add the details.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


lrkdbn
 

Maybe you could start with Grandt Line O scale queenposts and file them thinner. I do wish someone would make these 14"-16" or so queenposts in HO-they were very common on cars with composite or "repair steel" underframes in the 1912-1940 period .Major roads such as NYC, AT&SF, Southern and PO's such as FGEX had large numbers of these cars.  Maybe they could be 3D printed- the one consideration would be to make them of material rigid enough to stand the tension of the nylon fish line truss rod. Note that there actually 2 types,one attaches to the bottom of the I-beam or channel needle beam, the other to the side of a channel needle beam..
Larry King


Eric Hansmann
 

I checked the Tichy site for HO scale queenposts. The longest they have is also ten inches, the same as the former Grandt Line details. There’s probably a reason why longer versions aren’t available. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 3, 2022, at 12:35 PM, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:

Maybe you could start with Grandt Line O scale queenposts and file them thinner. I do wish someone would make these 14"-16" or so queenposts in HO-they were very common on cars with composite or "repair steel" underframes in the 1912-1940 period .Major roads such as NYC, AT&SF, Southern and PO's such as FGEX had large numbers of these cars.  Maybe they could be 3D printed- the one consideration would be to make them of material rigid enough to stand the tension of the nylon fish line truss rod. Note that there actually 2 types,one attaches to the bottom of the I-beam or channel needle beam, the other to the side of a channel needle beam..
Larry King


Charlie Duckworth
 

I found a source on Shapeways for 12” and 18” HO queen posts. I ordered the 18” thinking I can reduce the height 3”.   IF this works I’ll post images of the car.  Meanwhile I’m building the 1916 NYC boxcar to keep me entertained. 

Charlie D. 

On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I checked the Tichy site for HO scale queenposts. The longest they have is also ten inches, the same as the former Grandt Line details. There’s probably a reason why longer versions aren’t available. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 3, 2022, at 12:35 PM, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:

Maybe you could start with Grandt Line O scale queenposts and file them thinner. I do wish someone would make these 14"-16" or so queenposts in HO-they were very common on cars with composite or "repair steel" underframes in the 1912-1940 period .Major roads such as NYC, AT&SF, Southern and PO's such as FGEX had large numbers of these cars.  Maybe they could be 3D printed- the one consideration would be to make them of material rigid enough to stand the tension of the nylon fish line truss rod. Note that there actually 2 types,one attaches to the bottom of the I-beam or channel needle beam, the other to the side of a channel needle beam..
Larry King


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Scott H. Haycock
 

Charlie,

I'm curious; Is the needle beam beveled to allow for the angle of the queenposts, or is that angle cast into the base of the queenposts?

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 05/03/2022 12:12 PM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:


I found a source on Shapeways for 12” and 18” HO queen posts. I ordered the 18” thinking I can reduce the height 3”.   IF this works I’ll post images of the car.  Meanwhile I’m building the 1916 NYC boxcar to keep me entertained. 

Charlie D. 

On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I checked the Tichy site for HO scale queenposts. The longest they have is also ten inches, the same as the former Grandt Line details. There’s probably a reason why longer versions aren’t available. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 3, 2022, at 12:35 PM, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:

Maybe you could start with Grandt Line O scale queenposts and file them thinner. I do wish someone would make these 14"-16" or so queenposts in HO-they were very common on cars with composite or "repair steel" underframes in the 1912-1940 period .Major roads such as NYC, AT&SF, Southern and PO's such as FGEX had large numbers of these cars.  Maybe they could be 3D printed- the one consideration would be to make them of material rigid enough to stand the tension of the nylon fish line truss rod. Note that there actually 2 types,one attaches to the bottom of the I-beam or channel needle beam, the other to the side of a channel needle beam..
Larry King




--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.