Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
|
Curt Fortenberry
I've bought these drills off of ebay. They say used but I've never had a dull one, and the thick shank eliminates which holder I use. I always have my wax block nearby to lubricate. I've only ever broken one in resin kits, never had one break using it on plastic. All hand held chucks. Curt Fortenberry https://www.ebay.com/itm/165010445835 |
|
|
|
I have a collection of battery and low power drills and screwdrivers that mount collets. None were workable for drilling grab iron mounting holes. As Nelson pointed out above, these tools are too heavy for use with #78-#80 drill bits. I have a Starrett 240A Pin Vise l due from Amazon today. Unfortunately after I ordered it, I noticed comments about quality problems with the trueness of the collet in recent orders from Starrett. Hopefully this will have better quality and will work.
As I have pointed out. I think I will confine my modeling in the future to box and other house cars from the 1940's on where ladders replaced separate grab irons. The Westerfield later NYC modernized rebuild looks like a promising kit. It has ladders. -- Ken Adams Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
anthony wagner
Another two cents worth. Normally I use a single speed Dreml tool with a Dreml speed control to slow it down for drilling grab iron holes etc. In plastic or resin a very low speed is mandatory, even with #79 or #80 drills. I'm on my third Dreml since I've been using them since the 1970s. The single speed ones have plain bearings which eventually cause problems when they get too worn. I also use a Gyros 97-01818 swivel head pin vice for certain applications. I have had mine for literally decades. They are currently available from Amazon for $9.98. They allow very fine finger control for drilling by hand. A steady hand while drilling is essential. Otherwise, the bits will break. Tony Wagner
On Saturday, May 7, 2022, 02:52:26 PM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:
I missed the Scotch reference. Affordable single malt is an oxymoron. I’m partial to Lagavulin 16 year old single malt, but only around holidays.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 1:47 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
Thanks for all the comments about my grab iron hole drilling. My tools and drilling setup are shown below. |
|
|
|
Nelson Moyer
I missed the Scotch reference. Affordable single malt is an oxymoron. I’m partial to Lagavulin 16 year old single malt, but only around holidays.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 1:47 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
Thanks for all the comments about my grab iron hole drilling. My tools and drilling setup are shown below. |
|
|
|
Nelson Moyer
Your pin vise raised red flags for me. It’s too big and heavy, and the ball anchors it in your palm, so you don’t have fine fingertip control. I recommend a couple of Starrett sizes. I’m also using an old Ehrlinger slip ring pin vise that was my ‘go to’ for small bits until the chuck wore down so that it won’t hold bits smaller than #76. I ordered a replacement two years ago, but the chuck was acentric, so I sent it back. I tried again a year later with the same result. Apparently Swiss precision has slipped since I bought the first one.
Look at the pin vise posts on resincarbuilders group for other recommendations. Bottom line, you fingers should control the bit, not the palm of your hand. No wonder you break bits.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 1:47 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
Thanks for all the comments about my grab iron hole drilling. My tools and drilling setup are shown below. |
|
|
|
Thanks for all the comments about my grab iron hole drilling. My tools and drilling setup are shown below.
My only explanation is that I might have gotten a bad batch of Gyros #78 drill bits. I have never had such bad results as this before. I have been drilling grab iron holes since the 1980's. They last 4 were drilled with a #76 bit which did not break after 10/12 twists. Note that I am using a Mascot twist drill with non rotating wood handle. Boelube (from Boeing development) was used on every new bit and when cleared. The holes and bits were cleared of plastic regularly as I drilled. I have not had problems with Gyros bits before and found them to last often beyond one project. I am now done with the 72 holes. The grab irons have been inserted and secured with Plasti-Zap Medium CA from behind. I will probably let primer and paint coats fill the gaps in the grab iron holes.  The next challenge is cutting the bolt heads off 72 Grandt Line 3/4 nut to glue above the grab irons. Unfortunately my pipette glue applicator is clogged. Soaking in IPA now. And I usually drink Irish whiskey not Scotch (unless I happen on an excellent single malt at an affordable price.) My plan for the future is only build kits of more modern cars that have ladders not grab irons for reaching the car roof. -- Ken Adams Omicron BA2.2xx may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
|
|
|
Brad Andonian
Love the model!
I keep a spoon of olive oil for lubing. Have also used Ed-40. |
|
|
|
Nelson Moyer
I just searched resincarbuilders under pinvise and got nothing. I tried pin vise. and got all the posts related to the topic.
|
|
|
|
Nelson Moyer
Both Jack Burgess and I have written about pin vises and drilling technique in detail, so check the resincarbuilder archives using the search entry ‘pinvise’. There may also be information in the plasticfreight car builder, proto-layouts, and this group.
While the pinvise you choose matters, your technique, or lack thereof, is the primary cause of broken bits.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Scott H. Haycock
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 2:57 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
I've been following this thread and I agree in principle with Scott Chatfield about the length of exposed bit in a pin vise. I expose the bit the thickness of the material I'm drilling through, plus 1/16'' or so so I don't damage the body with the nose of the chuck when the bit clears. I also use beeswax as a lubricant.
I think a main reason for bit breakage is that many modelers hold the shell (or whatever) to rigidly. It takes a light hand and patience!
The attachments show a fixture I built to aid me in my modelmaking endeavors. Because it holds the body shell flexibly and securely, It works great for drilling and detailing body shells.
The first photo shows the materials I used- 2 blocks of 3/4'' MDF, one of those foam kit inserts from Accurail, intermountain, etc., and some wood glue.
The rest of the photos should be self explanatory. The weight of the fixture precludes the necessity of clamps, but I have some spring clamps that I can use if needed.
Scott Haycock
|
|
|
|
Scott H. Haycock
I've been following this thread and I agree in principle with Scott Chatfield about the length of exposed bit in a pin vise. I expose the bit the thickness of the material I'm drilling through, plus 1/16'' or so so I don't damage the body with the nose of the chuck when the bit clears. I also use beeswax as a lubricant.
I think a main reason for bit breakage is that many modelers hold the shell (or whatever) to rigidly. It takes a light hand and patience!
The attachments show a fixture I built to aid me in my modelmaking endeavors. Because it holds the body shell flexibly and securely, It works great for drilling and detailing body shells.
The first photo shows the materials I used- 2 blocks of 3/4'' MDF, one of those foam kit inserts from Accurail, intermountain, etc., and some wood glue.
The rest of the photos should be self explanatory. The weight of the fixture precludes the necessity of clamps, but I have some spring clamps that I can use if needed.
Scott Haycock
|
|
|
|
D. Scott Chatfield
Ken Adams wrote: > "72 grabiron holes taking at least 15 #78 drill bits." You are either chucking the bits wrong or drinking too much scotch.* The proper way to chuck a small diameter bit is with twice the length of the flutes sticking out of the chuck. For example, the #78 bits I use (whatever my LHS sells in bulk) have flutes that are .20" long, so .40" sticks out. You know how I most often break a small bit? By dropping the pin vise. Scott Chatfield * Chatfield's Fourth Law: "If you drink scotch, you're an alcoholic." |
|
|
|
I was going to recommend that as well, I’ve got an handheld that takes 3 AAA batteries and my ratio of broken bits dropped significantly On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 4:37 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
--
Charlie Duckworth Omaha, Ne. |
|
|
|
Ken
Hahahaha!! Sometime about 30 years ago I realized that if I bought a good drill press it would eventually pay for itself in tiny drill bits !! It's been pretty rare now for years for me to break a drill bit - and it only happens when I am doing the work by hand. With a good drill press you could use #80 drills or even smaller ones. I keep a #80 in the press and if I need a larger hole or two, I just use tiny reamers to enlarge the holes. :-D Tim O'Connor On 5/6/2022 5:33 PM, Ken Adams wrote: Really nice. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
|
|
|
Eric Hansmann
Ken,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You should invest in a motorized drill for small bits. I haven’t broken a bit for three or four years. I use a Holland can motor outfitted with a small chuck. I use a 9v battery for power. Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN On May 6, 2022, at 4:33 PM, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Really nice.
Again I like the body FCR which appears a more "rusty" color. As I am confined to acrylics I'll have to do some research to match. I need to differentiate foreign road cars from the darker SP FCR that I have been using. Here it has taken me at least 3 weeks since I started an Tichy P&LE rebuild kit and I am at a point where I might assemble the body. 72 grabiron holes drilled taking at least 15 #78 drill bits. -- Ken Adams Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
|
|
|
al_brown03
Nice car!
AL B. |
|
|
|
Jared Harper
SQ Junior
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the remarks; I got this kit on the afternoon of May 2nd and finished it last night (almost a Clark build). Mrs D is out of town so had no interruptions 😈. |
|
|
|
Mansell Peter Hambly
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: gtws00 via groups.io
Sent: May 6, 2022 8:30 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench
Nicely done as usual.
|
|
|
