Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 11:10 AM, Jack Mullen wrote:
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.
I agree with Jack. While the shipper could use any lumber to build a 'grain door', he would have to pay for the lumber. However, grain doors were part of the tariff, to be supplied by the railroad when they furnished the car. To this end the railroads maintained a supply of reusable panels that they collected at the destination, repaired, and returned to the grain shipping areas. These were a standard size (I don't have a drawing handy but the size Jack says sounds correct) typically made of two layers of 1" nominal boards, clinch nailed together, typically with cross pieces on the ends of one layer to better hold the panel together.

Clinch (or clench) nailing was a technique for laminating layers of boards in the days before waterproof glue. A pattern of nails were driven through both layers, the nails long enough to protrude 1/2" or so through the second layer. The points were then turned and driven back into the wood, burying the sharp points and making the nail difficult to pull out. If you google the term you will find numerous videos illustrating the technique, as it is still used in the construction of replica boats.

Dennis Storzek


Doug Paasch
 

The photo is dated 1939, so I would agree with Bob that it's just been rebuilt.

Doug Paasch


On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 12:10 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Jack Mullen
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Comments by Dennis S. & Bob H. have brought me to conclude that the car of interest in Bob C's posting is from the GN series 38000-38499 (291 cars in Jan 1943).  Was there perhaps a Sunshine Models rendering of this car?

Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?

Regards from Grove City in western Penna.  Mike Schleigh

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 11:14:02 PM EDT, Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:


Dennis,

These cars (500) were built as door and half (10' wide door opening) autocars by ACF in 1923, and in the 1938-1939 timeframe, 300 were rebuilt as 6' door boxcars by GN, with the remaining 200 cars rebuilt as double door cars with a 12' opening. 100 received Youngstown doors, and 100 received wooden doors. So this particular car is no doubt in good shape as it has been recently rebuilt.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 


Robert Heninger
 

Dennis,

These cars (500) were built as door and half (10' wide door opening) autocars by ACF in 1923, and in the 1938-1939 timeframe, 300 were rebuilt as 6' door boxcars by GN, with the remaining 200 cars rebuilt as double door cars with a 12' opening. 100 received Youngstown doors, and 100 received wooden doors. So this particular car is no doubt in good shape as it has been recently rebuilt.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 01:10 PM, brianleppert@... wrote:
That car's end looks like it has a 6-5-5 rib pattern, one too many for USRA.
Brian, you are absolutely right... and I have egg on my face. So, I looked at the photo at higher resolution, and can now see it was built in 1923 and is both higher (IH 10'-0") and wider than the original. It's a clone, built to the same basic design, even to the features I pointed out , but to larger dimensions.

Dennis Storzek


Jim Betz
 

Bob/all,
  This early logo lasted until 1941 when the first of the "side facing goats" started 
to be applied.  Of course it was still possible to see the "forward facing goats"
well beyond the introduction of the side in '41 - think "new cars and repaints"
got side facing goats after 1941 and you have it.
                                                                                                    - Jim in the PNW


brianleppert@att.net
 

That car's end looks like it has a 6-5-5 rib pattern, one too many for USRA.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Robert kirkham
 

hi Dennis,

Can you comment a little more fully on why you think the car is re-sheathed.  Looking for a sense of spotting features.

Rob

On Jun 21, 2022, at 10:23 AM, Dennis Storzek <dennis@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 09:49 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Photo from the Library of Congress:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017718317/resource/

A USRA double sheath car that has been re-sheathed and equipped with a Youngstown door. This photo well illustrates the spotting features I mentioned yesterday; the shape of the poling pocket casting, which caps the end of the inset side sill, and the casting that anchors the diagonal rod 1/3 of the way up the end.

Not so evident is the fact that the ends are wider than on the USRA SS cars, those only have to cover the ends of the sheathing which is in line with the side sill. On the SS car the diagonal rod from the sill to the end was replaced by a flat strap on the outside of the sheathing. The diagonal rod wasn't unique to the USRA cars; other double sheathed cars with steel frames built around the same time also used it, most notably the NYC 36' and 40' cars.

Dennis Storzek


Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 09:49 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Photo from the Library of Congress:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017718317/resource/

A USRA double sheath car that has been re-sheathed and equipped with a Youngstown door. This photo well illustrates the spotting features I mentioned yesterday; the shape of the poling pocket casting, which caps the end of the inset side sill, and the casting that anchors the diagonal rod 1/3 of the way up the end.

Not so evident is the fact that the ends are wider than on the USRA SS cars, those only have to cover the ends of the sheathing which is in line with the side sill. On the SS car the diagonal rod from the sill to the end was replaced by a flat strap on the outside of the sheathing. The diagonal rod wasn't unique to the USRA cars; other double sheathed cars with steel frames built around the same time also used it, most notably the NYC 36' and 40' cars.

Dennis Storzek


Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Photo from the Library of Congress:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017718317/resource/

For George Clooney - Goats who stare at men.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA