Flat car ID help please


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

 

We need some help in identifying a flat car in the attached photo. No, not the 1st one, that’s too easy! 😉  Rather the second one, carrying the transformer. As noted, the date is 4/7/31 and the location is Detroit’s Springwells Station. One notable feature of the flat is the height of the deck above the coupler housing. The end appears pretty tall (for a flat car). It appears to have 10 stake pockets and is likely about a 40’ car.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


ROGER HINMAN
 

I don’t think this is the specific car, but NYCL and probably others had pre WW1 well hole flats what were shorter (36’) and had six wheel trucks. Yours is not a very clear photo but I think I see three journal boxes on the forward truck.There’s a drawing of a similar P&LE flat in the 1912 Car cyc.

Roger Hinman

On Jul 5, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,
 
We need some help in identifying a flat car in the attached photo. No, not the 1st one, that’s too easy! 😉  Rather the second one, carrying the transformer. As noted, the date is 4/7/31 and the location is Detroit’s Springwells Station. One notable feature of the flat is the height of the deck above the coupler housing. The end appears pretty tall (for a flat car). It appears to have 10 stake pockets and is likely about a 40’ car.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL<image001.jpg>


Bill Parks
 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 04:47 PM, ROGER HINMAN wrote:
I don’t think this is the specific car, but NYCL and probably others had pre WW1 well hole flats what were shorter (36’) and had six wheel trucks. Yours is not a very clear photo but I think I see three journal boxes on the forward truck.There’s a drawing of a similar P&LE flat in the 1912 Car cyc.
I'm going to respectfully disagree.  I don't think it has six wheel trucks.  When I saved the picture and blew it up, it looks like four wheel trucks.  At this angle, you are looking under the car, and can see the wheels on the opposite side for the rear truck.  Also, doing a count, it looks like car #2 has the same number of pockets (11) as car #1.  Also, at this angle, I would guess that #2 is the same length (or close to - maybe a 40ft compared to 38ft) as car #1.  Given all of that, I would guess it is similar class to the first flat car.  However, since my eyes aren't what they used to be, and I don't have some of the "tools" I did 35 years ago when I would look at certain photos that I can't say I ever saw, I may be wrong.

All that said, what really interests me in this photo is the ventilated boxcar directly behind the two flats.  The herald looks like the old version of Central of Georgia's, but can't say for sure.
 
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

I would agree that this is a flat decked, 4-wheel trucked car. There is lots to distinguish it from the PRR FM in front of it, including the deck height, and the absence of the pressed steel members of the PRR FM, which btw, is 40' (42' between couplers). I think that our subject car is also around 40' but I wonder if it might be a 70 ton car (were there such things as 40' 70 ton flats?).

And yeah, the vent is definitely C of Ga. And the date of the photo is 1931.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2022 5:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat car ID help please
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 04:47 PM, ROGER HINMAN wrote:
I don’t think this is the specific car, but NYCL and probably others had pre WW1 well hole flats what were shorter (36’) and had six wheel trucks. Yours is not a very clear photo but I think I see three journal boxes on the forward truck.There’s a drawing of a similar P&LE flat in the 1912 Car cyc.
I'm going to respectfully disagree.  I don't think it has six wheel trucks.  When I saved the picture and blew it up, it looks like four wheel trucks.  At this angle, you are looking under the car, and can see the wheels on the opposite side for the rear truck.  Also, doing a count, it looks like car #2 has the same number of pockets (11) as car #1.  Also, at this angle, I would guess that #2 is the same length (or close to - maybe a 40ft compared to 38ft) as car #1.  Given all of that, I would guess it is similar class to the first flat car.  However, since my eyes aren't what they used to be, and I don't have some of the "tools" I did 35 years ago when I would look at certain photos that I can't say I ever saw, I may be wrong.

All that said, what really interests me in this photo is the ventilated boxcar directly behind the two flats.  The herald looks like the old version of Central of Georgia's, but can't say for sure.
 
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 04:37 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Bill,
I think that our subject car is also around 40' but I wonder if it might be a 70 ton car (were there such things as 40' 70 ton flats?).
 
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 
Bruce,

Being a specialized shipment for a particular project, I would think that there would be more images taken of this shipment, not just this one.
There is an address at the bottom of the photo that I can't make out from " ?? digitalcollections -- ????public library " something, something.  Maybe Detroit public library ?
There may be more photos of this shipment by following that link if it can be made out, I would think.

Dan Smith



Danny Inmon
 


Tim O'Connor
 


I think I can count 11 stake pockets. Hmm. Roughly 40 feet (40~42) with fishbelly sides
and 11 stake pockets ? Only about 50 railroads had those ! It is taller than the PRR car but
how does the PRR car compare to other common 40 foot flats in general ?


On 7/5/2022 3:14 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Folks,

We need some help in identifying a flat car in the attached photo. No, not the 1st one, that’s too easy! 😉  Rather the second one, carrying the transformer. As noted, the date is 4/7/31 and the location is Detroit’s Springwells Station. One notable feature of the flat is the height of the deck above the coupler housing. The end appears pretty tall (for a flat car). It appears to have 10 stake pockets and is likely about a 40’ car.

Regards,

Bruce


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


ROGER HINMAN
 

my eyes aren’t much better; i prepared to be wrong when I posted it; just wanted to get the discussion goin

On Jul 5, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 04:47 PM, ROGER HINMAN wrote:
I don’t think this is the specific car, but NYCL and probably others had pre WW1 well hole flats what were shorter (36’) and had six wheel trucks. Yours is not a very clear photo but I think I see three journal boxes on the forward truck.There’s a drawing of a similar P&LE flat in the 1912 Car cyc.
I'm going to respectfully disagree.  I don't think it has six wheel trucks.  When I saved the picture and blew it up, it looks like four wheel trucks.  At this angle, you are looking under the car, and can see the wheels on the opposite side for the rear truck.  Also, doing a count, it looks like car #2 has the same number of pockets (11) as car #1.  Also, at this angle, I would guess that #2 is the same length (or close to - maybe a 40ft compared to 38ft) as car #1.  Given all of that, I would guess it is similar class to the first flat car.  However, since my eyes aren't what they used to be, and I don't have some of the "tools" I did 35 years ago when I would look at certain photos that I can't say I ever saw, I may be wrong.

All that said, what really interests me in this photo is the ventilated boxcar directly behind the two flats.  The herald looks like the old version of Central of Georgia's, but can't say for sure.
 
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida