Odd Grab Iron Supports
Based upon compelling arguments, I'm going to suspend belief that the photograph is a Builders photo and going to go with the design concept that it is a FLAT piece of strap iron from just above the bottom grab bolt up to the top attach point, and that 4"/2" offset grabs were used (the 2" leg riveted to the strap).
Whew!
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
https://www.wplives.com/archives/freight/boxcars/boxcars40/14100.php
I take it as being the last of the series, unless the builder built them out of order.
https://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1930/BC14001-14100.php
Richard Webster
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:08 AM, radiodial868 wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the Mt Vernon Builders photo. Brand new car.
This could have been simply done with conventional grabs in 3 locations and 4 offset leg ones like that bottom grab.
I'm an engineer, and this really has me stumped.
I guess just duplicate what I see?
RJ Dial
Factoring in all of the input, I've figured it out. Thanks everyone. The end grabs need to have 4" legs and not the standard 2" grabs in order to clear the panels and yet still provide the 2" ARA mandated minimum grip clearance. That’s why the support straps are angled out from the panels. The anomaly is between 3 & 4 from the bottom – that strap should be flat just like between 6 & 7. It may be damaged as folks noted. It's actually not even needed. See attached image.
It all could have been done like the bottom grab, but for whatever reason someone decided to make it complicated, maybe a patent issue?
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
This could have been simply done with conventional grabs in 3 locations and 4 offset leg ones like that bottom grab.
I'm an engineer, and this really has me stumped.
I guess just duplicate what I see?
RJ Dial
I'm sure that was the design intent. What you are looking at is damage. Often these photos that show damaged parts of cars were taken specifically to document the damage, typically prompted by an injury claim.
Dennis Storzek
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
I tend to agree. It looks like the support is pushed in over one “valley” causing the rung to veer upwards and pulled out over the next above “valley” causing the rung to veer downward.
14100 would not have to have been the last car built and it might even have been the first. The car builder knows the desired sequence.
Steve Hle
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd Grab Iron Supports
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 01:38 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Why not straight down over the tops of the ribs?
I'm sure that was the design intent. What you are looking at is damage. Often these photos that show damaged parts of cars were taken specifically to document the damage, typically promted by an injury claim.
Dennis Storzek
Why not straight down over the tops of the ribs?I'm sure that was the design intent. What you are looking at is damage. Often these photos that show damaged parts of cars were taken specifically to document the damage, typically promted by an injury claim.
Dennis Storzek
- first rib -from top- you'd ecpect the strap to stick out, since there's ample space for the brakeman's hands.
However, it does not.
- then the open space between ribs offers plenty of space for brakeman's hand, so you'd say; no strap needed.
But in this position the strap is pointing away from the rib, creating a lot of room (where it's theoretically not needed).
To bend down to the 2nd rib, where -again- the brakeman has ample space for his hands...
- Then the strap bends down (?) and up again to end flat on the 3rd rib, again no space for the brakeman's hands.
- to end straight down flat on the 4th rib.
Question: why did they do this, why not just a straight strip from top to bottom flat over the tops of the ribs?
Where the ribs not of equal height?
Apart from that, at least two grabs are not mounted 100% horizontally.
Car # 14100 (in the picture) is the last of the 14001-14100 series, so you might expect this 'ladder' is not a construction mishap, but they mastered it with the last car.
No clue though.
I'm no engineer, I do not understand this construction.
Fred Jansz
CB&Q used steel strap on Murphy and Dreadnaught panel ends where the step would be mounted between corrugations. Sometimes is was a short strap for one grab iron, sometimes it was two straps for 2-3 grab irons, and sometimes it was a full length strap (stile). Look at end photos of CB&Q XM-25,26,28, 29, 30 and 31 boxcars for examples.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2022 3:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Odd Grab Iron Supports
In 1923 Mt Vernon built 100 automobile boxcars for the Western Pacific. I've never seen a grab iron support like this before on any car. Evidence indicate the setup lasted into the 1940's at least.
Has anyone seen something similar on another type of car that might have a better photo?
Any ideas why the vertical straps were installed in the first place? They appear to support the RH (inboard) end of the grabs, but why?
Thoughts?
I'm building a master for these, hence the question.
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
Any ideas why the vertical straps were installed in the first place? They appear to support the RH (inboard) end of the grabs, but why?To keep all the right hand grab iron ends in the same plane. Not so important on a Hutchins end, but necessary on Murphy ends since several would land on the sloped surface of ribs. For an example, look no further than the USRA boxcars.
Dennis Storzek
Has anyone seen something similar on another type of car that might have a better photo?
Any ideas why the vertical straps were installed in the first place? They appear to support the RH (inboard) end of the grabs, but why?
Thoughts?
I'm building a master for these, hence the question.
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RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
