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Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7003186
Scroll to enlarge the photo.
Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.
Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
I’d say a school outing. There are boys and girls present.
Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7003186
Scroll to enlarge the photo.
Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.
Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Very neatly loaded. The only load of lumber I ever saw being unloaded was from a 40 foot double door
Northern Pacific box car with a lumber door in one end. And it appeared that the entire car was loaded by
throwing sticks through the lumber door. It was a giant box of broken spaghetti. They had to unload every
stick, one by one.
On 10/11/2022 2:09 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7003186
Scroll to enlarge the photo.
Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.
Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Philip Dove
Read the manual! The typewritten captions say it is a class outing. If it was Scouting as well as being single sex, the adult would have loads of badges on his shirt.
One of the biggest efficiencies in shipping both maritime and railroads was when they bundled the lumber, and moved packages instead ofindividual sticks. On Tyneside receiving packaged lumber needed only 1%of the labor. Plus vast savings in storage areas, unnecessary sorting admin and far less equipment needed.
The car with the open door is CP 17728X. It was reweighed, I think, 25 05 38.
CP 17728X was one of a series of Dominion boxcars (175000-177885) that appears in the ORERs for the first time in the 1930s, (sometime after July 1932 and before January 1938). The CPR summary of equipment record for January 1938 lists 2861 cars in the series, with built dates 1909-1913.
Ian Cranstone’s roster (Canadian Freight Cars) http://www.nakina.net indicates that the series emerges as two separate groups, as follows:
175000-175999 (in service from July 1935 to July 1980)
176000-177999 (in service from July 1936 to July 1980) (including the car in the photo)
I don’t know why earlier Dominion cars that were renumbered in the 1930s (series 170000-173999, and series 174000-174999 (both enter service July 1934) are not listed by CP in their 1938 Summary with the cars in the 175000-177885 series.
Ian Cranstone also lists several subsequent series of Dominion cars that are renumbered, with multiple new number series from 178000 through 193199 coming into service from January 1938 through January 1959. New series are added in every year except 1939, 1940, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1955-1958. By the 1940s, the various small series of cars are being listed as a single compiled series that grows over the years as further cars are added.
So far, I have not found a record indicating which specific cars from the original series built in 1909-1913 were renumbered into the 175000-177999 series (or any of the series noted here), and Ian Cranstone suggests they were pulled from various earlier, pre-existing number series.
Spotting features for the original cars are not really obvious to me in this photo. I was looking for the gusset plates (where diagonal and vertical framing meet) that feature prominently in some photos, but can see no sign of them in this image. If i’m not mistaken, the modernized features (the basis for renumbering) would include the roof, steel door, second/top hand grab at the left end of the car side and the barely visible cast steel truck sideframes (but still using (i think) a Simplex bolster). I suspect an end view of the car would show an additional steel brace or two.
The 1941 CP Summary of Equipment includes a specific listing - including these cars - as being equipped with cast steel truck side frames. They are not listed among the cars with AB brakes. There were 8724 cars in the series at that point.
In the 1952 summary, all cars in the multiple series 170000-193199 are listed with steel frame trucks. Still no cars with AB brakes from this group. 16030 cars remain in the series.
I have not yet found a record indicating that any of the cars were later converted with AB brakes, although I believe a very few were. That may have resulted in renumbering, which i have not checked for.
While further original cars continued to be renumbered into this extended group after 1952, the count of the “renumbered" Dominion cars starts to shrink after the 1952 Summary, with 7135 cars in 1955.
There were 47 cars remaining in the renumbered series by 1965.
Rob
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
On the link scroll to enlarge the photo.
Scroll to enlarge the photo.
Appears to be a demonstration for a Brownie troop.
Notice how high the lumber is stacked in the boxcar. I believe this was common.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Clarence Zink
OK, so what is UNDER the boards being unloaded?
The bottom half of the load, from the long sheet of paper above the top of the ladder, is warped, bent, and otherwise not characteristic of cut dimensional lumber.
Cardboard? Magazines? It certainly seems to be in smaller bundles.
Also, it looks to me like the one bundle of 3 boards has gotten out of control, as the lower half has fallen off the 'slide'. A 16 foot (or greater) bundle of three 1" x 6" boards is quite a load. Looks like the woman and kid with the hat are the only ones (other than the mostly hidden man with one hand raised and the other on the slide receiving the boards) is aware of an impending catastrophe.
CRZ
The bottom half of the load, from the long sheet of paper above the top of the ladder, is warped, bent, and otherwise not characteristic of cut dimensional lumber.
Cardboard? Magazines? It certainly seems to be in smaller bundles.
Also, it looks to me like the one bundle of 3 boards has gotten out of control, as the lower half has fallen off the 'slide'. A 16 foot (or greater) bundle of three 1" x 6" boards is quite a load. Looks like the woman and kid with the hat are the only ones (other than the mostly hidden man with one hand raised and the other on the slide receiving the boards) is aware of an impending catastrophe.
CRZ
Jack Mullen
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 11:17 AM, Clarence Zink wrote:
I think the process goes something like this. The bundle is turned enough to get one end out the door. As it's slid further out, the free end is rested on the slide. The man in the car continues to turn the bundle as he shifts it further out. With gravity's help, the bundle's point of contact moves further down the slide as the bundle turns more nearly perpendicular to the car and the free end gets within reach of the ground man. As the photo is taken, the bundle is resting across the slide at an acute angle, still controlled by the guy in the car.
Jack Mullen
Also, it looks to me like the one bundle of 3 boards has gotten out of control, as the lower half has fallen off the 'slide'.I don't think this is out of control, though perhaps the woman in the photo does.
I think the process goes something like this. The bundle is turned enough to get one end out the door. As it's slid further out, the free end is rested on the slide. The man in the car continues to turn the bundle as he shifts it further out. With gravity's help, the bundle's point of contact moves further down the slide as the bundle turns more nearly perpendicular to the car and the free end gets within reach of the ground man. As the photo is taken, the bundle is resting across the slide at an acute angle, still controlled by the guy in the car.
Jack Mullen
Clarence Zink
Jack -
I hope you're right. It looks awful precarious to me.
I did know a "puller" at the Bonner, Montana lumber mill at one time. He pulled finished sawn boards off of a chain conveyor and stacked them. The fella had hands the size of hams. What a beast.
I wouldn't think cedar shingles. As bad as those are warped and twisted, they couldn't possibly be used flat on a roof or as siding. Hmmm . . . ??
CRZ
I hope you're right. It looks awful precarious to me.
I did know a "puller" at the Bonner, Montana lumber mill at one time. He pulled finished sawn boards off of a chain conveyor and stacked them. The fella had hands the size of hams. What a beast.
I wouldn't think cedar shingles. As bad as those are warped and twisted, they couldn't possibly be used flat on a roof or as siding. Hmmm . . . ??
CRZ
Scott H. Haycock
These look like cedar shingles to me also. They still package them this way. The bundles are held together with cross sticks and bailing wire ties. The weight of all that wood on top is compressing the bundles at the center areas, where the ties are.
I think this may have wound up being a claim for a incorrect loading. I suspect those shingles are ruined. I would have loaded them on top, not under that much weight!
Scott Haycock
On 10/14/2022 1:23 PM Clarence Zink <clarence.zink@...> wrote:
Jack -
I hope you're right. It looks awful precarious to me.
I did know a "puller" at the Bonner, Montana lumber mill at one time. He pulled finished sawn boards off of a chain conveyor and stacked them. The fella had hands the size of hams. What a beast.
I wouldn't think cedar shingles. As bad as those are warped and twisted, they couldn't possibly be used flat on a roof or as siding. Hmmm . . . ??
CRZ
Scott H. Haycock
If these were shingles, they may not be ruined. the weight may be causing the shims to fan out a little on the ends of the bundles, causing that warped look. I've seen this effect using cedar shims- shorter, narrower versions of the same thing.
Once the weight is off, they may snap back to straight and still be usable.
Scott Haycock
On 10/15/2022 12:38 PM Clarence Zink <clarence.zink@...> wrote:
Scott -
I guess shingles are a possibility. I wouldn't want to be responsible for a half car of damaged shingles!
CRZ
Doug Rhodes
Red cedar shingles are often soaked in water or stain before use, especially if they have dried out in shipment and/or storage. As such, they become flexible enough to be installed flat without cracking and usually dry flat in place without problems.
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Scott H. Haycock
Sent: October 15, 2022 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
Sent: October 15, 2022 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Lumber From A Boxcar (1940)
If these were shingles, they may not be ruined. the weight may be causing the shims to fan out a little on the ends of the bundles, causing that warped look. I've seen this effect using cedar shims- shorter, narrower versions of the same thing.
Once the weight is off, they may snap back to straight and still be usable.
Scott Haycock
On 10/15/2022 12:38 PM Clarence Zink <clarence.zink@...> wrote:
Scott -
I guess shingles are a possibility. I wouldn't want to be responsible for a half car of damaged shingles!
CRZ