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Photo: Shell Tank Cars
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Photo: Shell Tank Cars Photo I cropped courtesy of Martin Hansen on the Facebook Southern Pacific Railroad group. Photographer not stated. Taken in 1946 at Martinez, California. What color would you suppose is the second tank car? Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA 
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My guess would be the corporate yellow
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Photo: Shell Tank Cars Photo I cropped courtesy of Martin Hansen on the Facebook Southern Pacific Railroad group. Photographer not stated. Taken in 1946 at Martinez, California. What color would you suppose is the second tank car? Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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nyc3001 .
Silver with black lettering is another possibility. iirc the yellow scheme was mostly used in the 1920s, by the 1940s, many SCMX cars had the silver scheme.
-Phil Lee |
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It just doesn’t look bright enough to me to be silver. Silver would look more like the white lettering on the first car. This looks more “mellow”.
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "nyc3001 ." <nyc3001@...>
Silver with black lettering is another possibility. iirc the yellow scheme was mostly used in the 1920s, by the 1940s, many SCMX cars had the silver scheme. |
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Dave Parker
I'd lean towards yellow, if only because the dome cap looks darker, i.e., red. This was pretty clearly the scheme in several late-1920s builder's photos. That said, the two SHELL banners are smaller than in those early photos.
I'm not sure I have seen a Shell car in silver. I would have said black (as per car 1114) is what superseded (and maybe occurred concurrently with ) the yellow. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA |
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Tony Thompson
Dave Parker wrote:Dome cap is just dirtier, IMO. The likely color to me is actually gray, not silver, by this date. Many tanks before WW II were indeed painted aluminum, but in later years gray was more common. I'm not sure I have seen a Shell car in silver. I would have said black (as per car 1114) is what superseded (and maybe occurred concurrently with ) the yellow.From what I know, and what Richard Hendrickson knew, the yellow cars were unusual (in the prototype, I mean, not on model layouts). Tony Thompson tony@... |
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Dave Parker
On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 12:40 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
From what I know, and what Richard Hendrickson knew, the yellow cars were unusual (in the prototype, I mean, not on model layouts).I have a total of 8 AC&F builders photos spanning 1919-1929 and four reporting marks (RPX, SCAX, SCCX, SEPX) that support (or at least suggest) the red-on-yellow scheme. I have one fuzzy SEPX photo that I think dates from the 1920s showing a black car. I have no problem justifying the more colorful scheme in my 1934 context, but am inclined to agree that it became rare(r) after 1940. To me, it's simply a question of era of interest as to what you might reasonably expect to find on your layout. If there are any photos from the 1920s or 30s that show a different scheme, I would love to see them. I didn't find any when I carefully went through the Hendrickson collection in Sacramento. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA |
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Bruce Hendrick
Yellow with red lettering. Just like Athearn!
Bruce Hendrick
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Does anyone want to take a guess at the manufacturer and size of these tank cars? The first one looks like it might have an insulating jacket.
The automobile in the foreground is also of interest... -- Ken Adams Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
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Jack Mullen
On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 11:49 AM, Ken Adams wrote:
Does anyone want to take a guess at the manufacturer and size of these tank cars? The first one looks like it might have an insulating jacket.SCCX 1114 capy is 7960 gals plus the 342 for the dome which can be read on tank end in the photo. Based on the safety valves placed on centerline with the man way between, either Pennsylvania Tank Car or Standard Tank Car. Yes, it's jacketed, so insulated Class III or IV. The second car I'd say is 10k, maybe ACF. Also appears to be jacketed. I see more lettering to the right of "SHELL", out of focus and partly obscured by the arrowhead picked up in the screen grab. SHELL CHEMICAL maybe? Just grokking the appearance of the paint, I'd lean toward gray. All the photos I remember of known yellow cars have a large red "SHELL" centered, that's absent here. The side of the dome seems to have a smooth gloss under the grime, with an even tone that doesn't say aluminum to me. Can't argue if you interpret it differently. Jack Mullen |
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Dave Parker
Upon further review, I agree with Jack. I was struggling to make sense of the reporting mark on the second car, but now believe it's SCMX = Shell Chemical. This agrees with the fragment hiding behind the arrow.
A lot of clarity on this can be gleaned from Ted's blog: http://prototopics.blogspot.com/2019/12/shell-chemical-tank-cars-colors.html You have to wind your way through the Wayback Machine, but the link provided by Adam Chilcote to a CNWHS Modeler article seems to provide the definitive answer: gray with black lettering except the smallish red SHELL CHEMICAL banner. The car in this photo is clearly not any kind of high-pressure car based on the dome size. It's murky whether it's jacketed or not; I would lean towards not. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA |
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Tangent Scale Models
Ken Adams said "Does anyone want to take a guess at the manufacturer and size of these tank cars? The first one looks like it might have an insulating jacket."
Regarding SCCX 1114, Jack Mullen said "Based on the safety valves placed on centerline with the man way between, either Pennsylvania Tank Car or Standard Tank Car. Yes, it's jacketed, so insulated Class III or IV." -------------- SCCX 1114 is a General American build, ~8,000 gallon insulated ICC-103 (type III) on the 1928-Design underframe (sometimes called a "Type 30" or "Type 40"). The second tank is an ACF build, ~10,000 gallon non-insulated ICC-103 (type III) on a "Type 27" underframe. Dave Parker, I believe this ACF build has a non-insulated tank since most if not all of the ACF builds from that era that were insulated had overhanging wrappers on the ends, like the GATC build SCCX 1114 in this same photo, but is clearly lacking even with the low res here. In other words, my rationale is no overhanging wrappers on the ends. And my second piece of evidence: I have multiple photos of other SCMX tanks from the same era (mostly GATC builds) and they are non-insulated but have this same characteristic large expansion dome. Seems to be a Shell builder preference. David Lehlbach |
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A lot of the 1920's-1950's tank car photos we see on this group seem to have the large tank expansion dome as shown on the Shell tank cars. But is there a source of kits or RTR tank car models (HO preferred) with this feature? Alternatively has anyone made a replica of the large dome as a plastic or resin part. Perhaps a 3D print?
A similar question would be about the 1928-Design underframe (sometimes called a "Type 30" or "Type 40") that David points out was used on SCCX 1114? A combination of the frame and large dome on a longitudinal section tank would make an interesting resin kit or Tangent model...(Hint HInt Hint...) And then there is the Standard Tank Car tank car as a model... -- Ken Adams Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
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Jack Mullen
On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 02:33 PM, Tangent Scale Models wrote:
Regarding SCCX 1114, Jack Mullen said "Based on the safety valves placed on centerline with the man way between, either Pennsylvania Tank Car or Standard Tank Car. Yes, it's jacketed, so insulated Class III or IV."David, Thanks for correcting my erroneous builder identification. Finally having time to examine the image on a full size monitor, I think my interpretation of the safety valve placement was wrong, and I failed to see the characteristic GATC bolster ends. The running board shadow led me to "see" the pointed Standard Tank Car bolster shape. The second tank is an ACF build, ~10,000 gallon non-insulated ICC-103 (type III) on a "Type 27" underframe. Dave Parker, I believe this ACF build has a non-insulated tank since most if not all of the ACF builds from that era that were insulated had overhanging wrappers on the ends, like the GATC build SCCX 1114 in this same photo, but is clearly lacking even with the low res here.You may well be right about the second car being noninsulated. There are dark lines around the tank end and around the top of the dome, which I interpreted as shadow from an overhanging jacket end flange, and overhanging dome jacket top flange respectively. With a better look, I'm still not sure whether that's correct, or it's an articat of the image, or something else. Thanks, Jack Mullen |
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a couple of SCCX insulated GATC tank cars On 11/6/2022 5:33 PM, Tangent Scale Models via groups.io wrote: Ken Adams said "Does anyone want to take a guess at the manufacturer and size of these tank cars? The first one looks like it might have an insulating jacket." --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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It's amazingly frustrating because there seems to be no color photographs of these tank cars !! Builder photos appear to be either yellow, a light gray, or 'artificial aluminum' (which is a light gray color -- think of UPS trailers). Even the ACF tank cars book by Ed Kaminski has no color photos of Shell tank cars. On 11/3/2022 3:36 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote: I'd lean towards yellow, if only because the dome cap looks darker, i.e., red. This was pretty clearly the scheme in several late-1920s builder's photos. That said, the two SHELL banners are smaller than in those early photos. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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