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Question about 40 ft. gondolas

Tim O'Connor
 


I believe Walthers (ages ago) offered a composite gondola flat kit. Dunno if they were USRA or specific to NYC or not.

On 11/9/2022 9:49 PM, reporterllc via groups.io wrote:

Didn't Walthers do some NYC USRA Gons?  Are they usable in some form for later modeling?

Victor Baird

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
reporterllc
 

Kevin:

A number of HO kits have been available for various 40 ft. gons from Westerfield, F&G and Sunshine Models. But it would be nice for someone like Rapido to do some of these cars RTR. They have done a number of other PRR cars including boxcar, hoppers and flats. I would think that the PRR car would sell well. And IIRC, the Reading and CNJ had similar cars.

Victor B.
reporterllc
 

I have some of the Sunshine 40 ft. cars. It seems that with many of these cars, you could just swap the decals for a different road and be accurate. Was the AAR 40 ft. gondola a common model for various roads?

I agree that if someone like Rapido would do the PRR 40 ft. gons, they would be snapped up. Maybe we can contact Rapido and prod them. They have done some great work other PRR specific cars including hoppers, flats and boxcars.

Victor Baird
reporterllc
 

Didn't Walthers do some NYC USRA Gons?  Are they usable in some form for later modeling?

Victor Baird
Clarence Zink
 

That's a unique load for sure.

Thanks Tim!

CRZ
William Hirt
 

I have Jerry's decals (and some of his flat car kits), but my friend wants them for the Chinese Red cars. Jerry's are for the mineral red cars. The lettering is quite different.

Bill HIrt

On 11/13/2022 8:12 PM, Rich C via groups.io wrote:

Jerry Hamsmith has decals not only for the FM-14, but for many other pieces of Burlington rolling stock. His decals are top notch!

Rich Christie
Rich C
 

Jerry Hamsmith has decals not only for the FM-14, but for many other pieces of Burlington rolling stock. His decals are top notch!

Rich Christie
William Hirt
 

CB&Q Series 92400-92799. FM. 53' 6" Steel Flat Car. Class FM-14A. Built 1952 by CB&Q Havelock.

I know someone who is looking for CB&Q decals that will do this car. He bought the resin kit at the St. Louis RPM this summer. He's been unsuccessful in finding any of the correct decals.

Bill Hirt

On 11/13/2022 3:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Not a steam era photo, but the press in this photo is obviously well used so probably dates from the steam era. It would
make a noteworthy load for a flat car. I think these CB&Q flats were nearly identical to the NP cars first offered in brass
from W&R, and then from Aaron Gjermundsen as Northern Scale Models, and then from Speedwitch.
Tim O'Connor
 


Not a steam era photo, but the press in this photo is obviously well used so probably dates from the steam era. It would
make a noteworthy load for a flat car. I think these CB&Q flats were nearly identical to the NP cars first offered in brass
from W&R, and then from Aaron Gjermundsen as Northern Scale Models, and then from Speedwitch.


On 11/13/2022 4:22 PM, Clarence Zink wrote:

OK, Richard, no offence taken, but now you've piqued my interest.  What sort of hydraulic press is that piece from?  Have you got a picture of the entire machine?

I'm sure others are curious also.

CRZ

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Clarence Zink
 

OK, Richard, no offence taken, but now you've piqued my interest.  What sort of hydraulic press is that piece from?  Have you got a picture of the entire machine?

I'm sure others are curious also.

CRZ
Richard Townsend
 

Sorry. That was supposed to go only to Mr. Redden.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2022 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about 40 ft. gondolas

Mr. Redden,

I gather from your post about possibly 3D printing gondolas that you can do 3D design and printing. Assuming that's true I am wondering if you might be interested in doing a flatcar load for me. I've attached a photo of the piece I'm interested in; it's the part above the legs. Is this something you might be interested in helping me with?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: mlredden1 <mlredden1@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2022 4:45 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about 40 ft. gondolas

I contacted Jeff last night about working on 3D printing some IC gons. He sent me some info. If anyone has more drawings or photos they could send me off list that would be great.

Mike Redden

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:22 PM golden1014 via groups.io <golden1014=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur with that, Jeff.  IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service.  I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet.  John Golden

Richard Townsend
 

Mr. Redden,

I gather from your post about possibly 3D printing gondolas that you can do 3D design and printing. Assuming that's true I am wondering if you might be interested in doing a flatcar load for me. I've attached a photo of the piece I'm interested in; it's the part above the legs. Is this something you might be interested in helping me with?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: mlredden1 <mlredden1@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2022 4:45 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about 40 ft. gondolas

I contacted Jeff last night about working on 3D printing some IC gons. He sent me some info. If anyone has more drawings or photos they could send me off list that would be great.

Mike Redden

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:22 PM golden1014 via groups.io <golden1014=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur with that, Jeff.  IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service.  I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet.  John Golden

ed_mines
 

That first one (composite) was a standard standard steel design & Erie had them.There's a photo of an Erie car rebuilt with steel sides in the Kline/Cullotta book. 
Also a crude drawing of the Erie car in the RMC planbook.
That RMC book also has a nice photo of a NYC lot 719 car. 
Tim O'Connor
 


Only F&C produced the 41 foot "War Emergency" gondola -- in quotes because the T&NO bought
a LOT of these after the war too. F&C makes the original car as well as the steel-sheathed versions which
are correct for ACL and SP lines. Adam Chilcote now offers the Scullin LV trucks for the SP cars as well
(3-D printed)

Tim


On 11/10/2022 4:51 PM, Kenneth Montero wrote:

Eric,

No, rhe Tichy kit is for a 52' long gondola.

sunshine did offer a kit for a 41' war emergency gondola.

Ken Montero


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
mlredden1
 

I contacted Jeff last night about working on 3D printing some IC gons. He sent me some info. If anyone has more drawings or photos they could send me off list that would be great.

Mike Redden

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:22 PM golden1014 via groups.io <golden1014=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I concur with that, Jeff.  IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service.  I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet.  John Golden

golden1014
 

I concur with that, Jeff.  IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service.  I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet.  John Golden
Jeffrey White
 

I could use 20 of the IC composite GS and solid bottom gons.  997 of the composite GS gons had steel sides applied in 1944.  20 of the composite GS gons were still in service at the end date of this list 1 January 1960.  There were still 67 composite solid bottom gons in service.  There were several thousand composite cons in service on the IC in my 1955 time frame. 

There were some interesting conversions of these cars. 50 composite solid bottom gons were converted to coke hoppers for the IC owned C&IW.  In 1923 several hundred were converted to log cars by removing the wood sides and decking and reinforcing the underframes.  433 were still in service on 1 January 1960.

I'm hoping 3D printing gives us some of these much needed models.

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/10/2022 10:16 AM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:

Everyone's forgetting about THE most important "short" gondola that we all need: the Pennsy GR and GRa. These composite gons were very long-lived, were built in numbers that dwarf anything else, and were built for one of the largest railroads on the planet. I'm not necessarily a SPF, but I realise that they're at the top of everyone's must-have list.

To put it in perspective: in 1930 the PRR had 14,076 GRa's on the roster, and 11,163 GR's (the Long Island also had a few hundred). By 1955, the roster was down to 2,005 GRa and 68 GR. 

14,076 is a BIG number. That's a larger number than most railroad's entire freight car roster. And that number was far larger in the 1920s.

There are other large fleets of gons we need (ACF "catalog" 36-foot all wood; pre-WWII GS gons, IC composite GS, etc), but the place to start is with the GRa.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 07:28:24 PM CST, Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:


For Lot 702, the NYCHS has the following scanned drawings as part of a much larger set of drawings for other gondolas:

10532

NYC 710000-710999

Steel Details

702-G

10537

NYC 708000-708499

Genl Arrg, Air Brake

702-G

10573

NYC 708000-708499

Side Details, sides & underframe

702-G

10575

NYC 708000-708499

Steel Details- Diaphragms

702-G

10588

NYC 708000-708499

Genl Arrgm, 52'6" Wood Floor Gondola

702-G

N-52964

A

NYC 710000-710999

Steel Details. Side Construction. Freight Cars.

702-G

N-52965

A

NYC 710000-710999

Steel Details. Center Sills. Freight Cars.

702-G

N-52966

B

NYC 710000-710999

Steel Details. Freight Cars.

702-G

N-53052

K

NYC 710000-710999

Striking Plate. Freight Cars.

702-G

SK-N-9078

B

NYC 710000-710999

End Arrangement. Showing hand Brake, Ladder and Hand Hold Appliances. "Not Completed. Not Used." Lot 702-G.

702-G

T-52986

NYC

Uncoupling Arrangement

702-G

T-53103

NYC 710000-710999

List of Castings 52'-6" Gondola Cars Lot 702G

702-G

T-53104

NYC 710000-710999

List of Castings 52'-6" Gondola Cars Lot 702G

702-G

X-52967-A

A

NYC 710000-710999

689G,702G; STEEL DETAILS END CONSTRUCTION

702-G

X-52968-A

A

NYC 710000-710999

689G,702G; STEEL DETAILS UNDERFRAME

702-G

X-53347-C

C

NYC 710000-710999

SIDE REINFORCING

702-G

X-54550-A

A

NYC

STEEL DETAILS AB EQUIPMENT

702-G

Y-53168

CENTER DEVICE GONS

702-G

Z-52959

C

NYC 710000-710999

General Arrangement. 52'-6" H. S. Gondola.

702-G

Z-52960

B

NYC

General Arrangement. Foundation Brake. Freight Cars

702-G

Z-52961

NYC

STL DTLS SIDES GONDOLAS

702-G

Z-53183

G

NYC 710000-710999

General Arrangement. H. S. Gondola.

702-G

Z-57640

NYC 710000-710999

Lading Cover Flat Steel Loading in Gondola Cars Freight Cars

702-G

 

 

(The red highlight is my own note to ignore these lines while green is “Start here”).

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2022 1:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about 40 ft. gondolas

 

[Edited Message Follows]

We definitely need more NYC/P&LE gondolas as they were very widely traveled and numbered in the tens of thousands. The below prototypes have never had any model or kit of any kind.

One composite gondola design had over 15,000 members with both wood and steel sides:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-270.jpg

Lot 448 had an interesting design with ribs extending below the car sides and had 783 members: 

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-448.jpg

Lot 719 was a Central-only "War Emergency" design which had 1,100 members; they were later rebuilt as steel cars:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-719.jpg

Lot 592, 593, 689, and 702 had a design similar to Bethlehem gons and had 3,500 members:

https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-702.jpg 

In terms of plastic cars, the biggest hole is probably the 41' USRA clone gondola, of which there were 8,500. Sunshine did these in three versions: as-built Murphy ends, as built Dreadnaught ends, and rebuilt with fishbelly side sill and Improved Dreadnaught ends.

-Phil

golden1014
 

Victor and Dennis,

Indeed, the DA end fits your Accurail car nicely.  I did an article in the SCL Modeler magazine in 2008 (Wow--it's been 14 years already?) covering the ACL gons with both dreadnaught and Improved Dreadnaught ends. 

John Golden
Kenneth Montero
 

Tichy makes the 52' war emergency gondola in plastic - a one-piece body.

Ken Montero

On 11/10/2022 5:47 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Wasn't this in plastic at one time? Some early company like Hobbyline.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 11/10/2022 4:31 PM CST Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


sunshine did offer a kit for a 41' war emergency gondola.
So does F&C, if you’re talking about the car I think you are.

Tony Thompson


Eric Hansmann
 

Wasn't this in plastic at one time? Some early company like Hobbyline.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 

On 11/10/2022 4:31 PM CST Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
 
 
sunshine did offer a kit for a 41' war emergency gondola.
So does F&C, if you’re talking about the car I think you are.

Tony Thompson
 

 
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