Baggage cars in freight trains
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Robert G P
I think I have heard of that, interesting! -R On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 12:55 PM Patrick Curtis <curtisporky@...> wrote:
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I have a slide or two of a Rock Island full baggage car about 3-5 cars ack from the locomotives in Oklahoma. There was one or two baggage cars used for distribution of grain doors for boxcars.
Patrick Curtis Jacksonville, Texas |
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nyc3001 .
Bob, I will make a post about the Bachmann express reefer soon. The short story is it would be considered a foobie by many in this group. There are some aspects of the car that wouldn't be easy to fix.
-Phil |
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From the Bachmann website: Refrigerated rail transportation revolutionized the North American produce industry in the early 20th century, allowing fresh commodities from the west to be sold for the first time in the east, and vice-versa.
Back to the history books, Bachmann. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Jack
Phew! Yes, that makes much more sense. And I agree with the post that this train looks a LOT like a mail & express train, rather than a freight train. I don't find anything particularly weird about the caboose, but it could have something to do with strict union rules about the types of equipment permitted before both freight & passenger crew components are required. I have a video of a 1960's SP train in the San Joaquin valley carrying piggyback cars, express box cars and mail storage (baggage) cars -- Basically looks like stuff that had to be moved quickly, and to bypass freight yards. On 11/16/2022 7:16 PM, Jack Mullen wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote: --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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For sure those cans are not going to Alaska. Seattle had an American Can plant and a Continental Can plant that did all the empty can business to Alaska. My dad worked for the Continental Can plant. Doug Paasch Former Seattleite On Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 9:40 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 06:59 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote: |
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Jack Mullen
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 06:59 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
There is also a Juneau, Pennsylvania. A railroad passes through it but there’s never been much there.And a carload of cans westbound from Cleveland won't be going there. Jack |
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Dennis I was not aware of a Juneau WIS and agree most likely the car was destined there. A number of canneries exist in Wisconsin. But If the load was destined to Juneau Alaska, I believe it would be transferred to a ship as there is no railroad in Juneau Alaska.
Doug Harding https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/ Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:52 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Baggage cars in freight trains
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 08:27 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:
Doug, I'm inclined to agree with Jack Mullin, who pointed out that there is also a Juneau, Wis. in the same area as several of the other destinations foe empty cans. |
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Eric Hansmann
There is also a Juneau, Pennsylvania. A railroad passes through it but there’s never been much there.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Dennis Storzek via groups.io <soolinehistory@...> wrote:
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Dennis Storzek
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 08:27 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:
More likely the car was unloaded in Seattle or Vancouver, with cans put on a ship for delivery to Juneau.Doug, I'm inclined to agree with Jack Mullin, who pointed out that there is also a Juneau, Wis. in the same area as several of the other destinations foe empty cans. Dennis Storzek |
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Except the Alaska Railroad never ran to Juneau. In fact Juneau AK never had a railroad. To this day the city does not even have a highway to the outside world. The only way to get to Juneau is by air or sea. More likely the car was unloaded in Seattle or Vancouver, with cans put on a ship for delivery to Juneau.
Doug Harding https://www.facebook.com/douglas.harding.3156/ Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 5:06 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Baggage cars in freight trains
Looking more closely at the consist info, it looks like J-1c Hudson #5262 is on the point, which was very unusual for a freight train (since the Central's primary freight engines in this time period were Mikados and Mohawks). |
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Eric Hansmann
Bachmann is releasing a model very similar to these NYC express cars.
I recall Sunshine Models produced a resin kit towards the end of their business run.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
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Jack Mullen
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 03:06 PM, nyc3001 . wrote:
However, my curiosity was piqued by the "NYC" reefers.Phil, I didn't see your note til I'd posted my reply to Bruce's question. Good catch on the NYC express reefers! I missed that. On second look, the low numbered NRC and PFE cars should also be express reefers. NWX 15126 is a freight reefer. Still, otherwise empty reefers are getting a revenue backhaul. Most will likely get their next perishable load somewhere around the cans' destination. Jack |
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anthony wagner
The NYC reefers shown were not true reefers but were more like express reefers without provision for icing. NYC serviced a huge milk shed in upstate New York and they had been built to carry milk cans to creameries in 1925-31. As that business dried up post war, they were repurposed for other uses. In 1954 103 cars were rebuilt as Baggage-Express. The numbers after 1938 were in the 5701-5799 and 6401-6660 series, see attached below. True express reefers with ice hatches were built 1929 and numbered 5800-6074.
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 03:58:44 PM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Holy smokes! A NYC reefer loaded with 5 tons of empty cans from Cleveland headed to Juneau, Alaska !! Presumably to be returned with a load of canned salmon. :-) If I created a waybill like that at the club nobody would believe it ! On 11/16/2022 3:52 PM, nyc3001 . wrote: There are quite a few
NYC freight consists from canadasouthern.com that include
passenger cars. The below consists are taken from the Toledo and
Lake divisions. Here's one with a NYC baggage (loaded with mail) and coach and an empty ATSF(!) baggage: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-101446.htm ^^ 101446 has the cans for Juneau
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Jack Mullen
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Holy smokes! A NYC reefer loaded with 5 tons of empty cans from Cleveland headed to Juneau, Alaska !!Could be, but more likely it's going to Juneau, Wis. The other can destinations match towns in vegetable and fruit growing areas of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Jack |
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Jack Mullen
On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 12:57 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
I am familiar with M&E trains with this type of consist (and they, at least on the PRR, were technically passenger trains), and that would include the coach serving as a rider car for the crew. However, the consist you posted has both the coach (labeled RIDER) and a caboose…. Why?Bruce, The likely answer is that the train crew is from a freight pool, with an assigned caboose. Perhaps the rider coach will be used by the next crew fron Toledo, or it may be going to Chicago as a deadhead. Other than the rider coach, the consist is merchandise (LCL) in boxcars, cans in what would otherwise be empty reefers returning westward, express in boxcars, one car of mail in a baggage car, and a foreign baggage car deadheading home. I suppose the first two groups are moving on freight waybills, the other loads under REA or mail contracts.That's a mix of freight and "passenger" business from an accounting viewpoint, so likely some accounting clerk will be wearing down his pencil allocating costs. Jack Mullen |
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Looking more closely at the consist info, it looks like J-1c Hudson #5262 is on the point, which was very unusual for a freight train (since the Central's primary freight engines in this time period were Mikados and Mohawks).
However, my curiosity was piqued by the "NYC" reefers. Shouldn't the reporting marks be MDT? But the numbers fit within the NYC express reefer series 5740-6074 or the milk reefer series 6400-6660 (more proof that milk cars were used in express service), so I'm going to assume that these reefers were actually 50' NYC express reefers and that this is a mail and express train, not a freight train. GN 2050, an express reefer in the GN 2000 series, seems to corroborate this. But the first car, B&O 385336, is a normal M-53 wagontop XM not equipped with steam and signal lines. The second car, DL&W 4829, is also a normal double-sheathed boxcar. Looking closely at the lading, it doesn't look like there were any perishables. So maybe these boxcars were pressed into express/merchandise service temporarily to ship dry loads, like the empty cans inside all of the reefers. In sum, it looks like we have a J-1c Hudson pulling a M&E train (with no steam heat or air signaling system possible because of the XMs) originating at Cleveland's East 26th St. express house with some boxcars carrying dry merchandise and express, express reefers and milk cars with empty cans (one of which is apparently going to Alaska, as Tim noted), one baggage car of mail, a deadheading ATSF baggage, a rider coach, and a normal caboose. So if my assumptions aren't wrong, we have one mystery left. As Bruce said, why the caboose? -Phil |
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Holy smokes! A NYC reefer loaded with 5 tons of empty cans from Cleveland headed to Juneau, Alaska !! Presumably to be returned with a load of canned salmon. :-) If I created a waybill like that at the club nobody would believe it ! On 11/16/2022 3:52 PM, nyc3001 . wrote: There are quite a few NYC freight consists from canadasouthern.com that include passenger cars. The below consists are taken from the Toledo and Lake divisions. ^^ 101446 has the cans for Juneau
-- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Phil,
I am familiar with M&E trains with this type of consist (and they, at least on the PRR, were technically passenger trains), and that would include the coach serving as a rider car for the crew. However, the consist you posted has both the
coach (labeled RIDER) and a caboose…. Why? Bruce Smith Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "nyc3001 ." <nyc3001@...>
There are quite a few NYC freight consists from canadasouthern.com that include passenger cars. The below consists are taken from the Toledo and Lake divisions. |
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nyc3001 .
There are quite a few NYC freight consists from canadasouthern.com that include passenger cars. The below consists are taken from the Toledo and Lake divisions.
Here's one with a NYC baggage (loaded with mail) and coach and an empty ATSF(!) baggage: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-101446.htm This one has two NYC coaches: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-053048.htm Yet another with an empty NYC baggage: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists-010542.htm There are many more consists like this. Usually the passenger cars are located just behind the engine (sometimes within the first few cars) or just ahead of the caboose. While passenger cars in freight trains definitely weren't the norm, it also seems that it wasn't too unusual at least on this part of the Central system. -Phil Lee |
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